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Sabots
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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FALPhil
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Posts: 377
Location: Dixie

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:14 am    Post subject: Sabots Reply with quote

A few days ago, in an unrelated thread, Dimitri mentioned sabots as a possibility for getting light, fast bullets out of a medium bore rifle. I admit that I have always been fascinated with the concept ever since I heard of it many years ago, but have never tried sabots. Remington used to sell a line (maybe still does) called 'Accelerator' which was saboted .22 bullets int 30-06 and .308 Win cases.

I'd like to hear from people who have tried reloading saboted rounds. What are the special reloading techniques, if any? How do the rounds perform? Are they accurate enough for target/varmint work? How does the plastic sabot affect the bore?
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Arron
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:31 am    Post subject: Re: Sabots Reply with quote

I have not ever loaded them but did talk to a guy at a "show" one time that did load them into 7.62x39 Russian and he claimed that they shot great. I am sure that they did but I would question the accuracy of the projectile when it reached it's intended target. Remington also had these loads for a .30-30Win. And as I recall they pulled them for bad accuracy, to much speed and they were not staying stable in flight. As for the Sabot hurting the bore, I would think it highly unlikely though in the case of the 7.62x39 I would be cautious of the "plastic" flowing into the gas port and effectively making your semi-auto into a single shot.
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44marty
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Sabots Reply with quote

FINALLY- a posting on sabots.
I was hoping to find some results here, not questions. I have reloaded some rounds in 30-06 and in .300 WBY, but haven't tested them yet. I will post results as soon as this bloody snow stops and I get a chance to chronograph the loads.
Here's what I have so far - I bought sabots and the plastic die set for seating them from Dave Call of A Call to Arms. Great guy, and very helpful. his link:
www.ammo-one.com
They are also available from www.sabotreloadingpro.com
The sabots with dies came with a data sheet of recommended loads for 13 different 30 cal cartridges.

I bought the sabots because I was so impressed with the Remington Accelerator ammo that I tried many years ago. These were hot loads, with heavy recoil in my (too) light sporterised 30-06. Even with the sharp recoil, I COULD SEE THE BULLET HOLE IN THE TARGET THROUGH MY SCOPE at 75 yards BEFORE the recoil shifted my sight picture off the target. The loads were rated on the box at 4750 fps - but I didn't have a chrono back then to verify this.

The data sheet from ammo-one lists 47-80gr 22 cal bullets at 4300 to 4450 fps from a 30-06, and 4575 to 4700 fps from a .300 WBY
The trick will be to find bullets that will hold together when spun at the RPM's generated at these velocities with standard barrel twist rates.

Dave said that he finally found a round that his wife approves of. She doesn't like him killing varmints, and his bullets were disintegrating 20 yds from the muzzle.

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44marty
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Sabots Reply with quote

Well, I have results from some initial loads, but obviously have still to work up to the max.
I loaded up ten rounds to get a feel for which direction to head. These first rounds turned out to be weaker than anticipated:

All loads were fired from a Rem 700 30-06
I managed to set up my tripod and chrono in spite of 3 feet of snow, 25 feet from the muzzle

35 gr Hornady VMax with 58 gr IMR 4350 -- 5 rounds
Ave: 2986 fps
High: 3031 fps
low: 2953 fps
StdDev: 32 fps

35 gr Hdy VMax with 50 gr IMR 3031 -- 2 rounds
3391 fps and
3354 fps

Sierra 53 gr HP Match 51 gr IMR 3031 -- 3 rounds
Ave: 3452 fps
individual rounds:
3477 fps
3458 fps
3422 fps

Accuracy was OK at 50 yards, but not as good as either my Ruger 77 in .204 (which is amazingly accurate) or my neighbor's Ruger 77 compact in .223

The Rem 700 from which the sabots were fired grouped 3/8" (worst group) with his standard 180 gr deer load.
The sabot loads grouped 1/2" and 3/4" at the same 50 yard range.

This doesn't really show us much. The accuracy must be evaluated at a much greater distance, and with much hotter loads. I will have more velocity info soon. The accuracy testing will have to wait until the snow melts.

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The strength of the wolf is in the pack; the strength of the pack is in the wolf. ~ R. Kipling

I LOVE YOU, LADY LUCK !!!
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slimjim
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Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Sabots Reply with quote

At those velocities, legacy bullets will be ok. As they increase, there is the potential that you are going to need monolithic bullets to stay together. Barnes TSX or Varmit Grenade are the choices I know of. There may be others.

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44marty
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Location: Cheshire, MA; USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Sabots Reply with quote

I am planning to work up to loads over 4000 fps. You are right, slimjim, that the bullets I have listed above may come apart with standard barrel twist rates. I will probably need a solid or at least heavy-jacket bullet.

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The strength of the wolf is in the pack; the strength of the pack is in the wolf. ~ R. Kipling

I LOVE YOU, LADY LUCK !!!
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Sabots Reply with quote

I only have experience with Barnes TSX 53 and 62gr. They have been accurate for me.

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"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
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44marty
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Location: Cheshire, MA; USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Sabots Reply with quote

I looked up the data in the Hornady #7 reloading manual for the 35 gr VMax. They are rated up to 4400 fps, so I should be OK with them.

The Sierra manual has not arrived yet.

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The strength of the wolf is in the pack; the strength of the pack is in the wolf. ~ R. Kipling

I LOVE YOU, LADY LUCK !!!
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Elvis
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Posts: 7355
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Sabots Reply with quote

you can get sabots from magnun inports here in NZ. the appeal of them could be to not load em too hot and use them for varmits to get practice with the deerslayer.

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