Winchester 1885 .300 WSM

craighix · Rookie Member Joined: Aug 01, 2007 Posts: 8

Has anyone had experience with this combination?

longshots · Member Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 29

I can't really tell you for sure, do you already have the gun and are there any problems? I have a Browning 1885 in 7mm Rem Mag, it has been flawless in the 20 years I have owned it. If you are worried about the cartridge itself, I think the 300 WSM has withstood its shakedown period and is a good round. The Browning 1885 and the Winchester are almost identical and are off the same patent.

SwampFox · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Winchester 1885 .300 WSM

Craig,
I was going to refer you to the Shortmag.org site but went there first and there was no site. So, I will try to help you.

I own/built two 300 WSM guns, neither of which is an 1885. I own/built a half dozen single shots, none are 1885s. However, Based on my experiance as a rifle builder and owner of a 300 WSM, I wouls say that the 300 WSM in the 1885 would be an excellent choice for a single shot rifle. The 1885 is touted as one of the most accurate single shot guns around and the 300 WSM is a very accurate round when you find the sweet spot.

The only fly in the ointment is what you know and what you expect. The rifle will have very real recoil, real muzzle blast and it will be a single shooter. It will not be a little cartridge with little recoil and that is the mistake 90% of WSM buyers make. You buy a short buggy whip barrel and a 180 at 3,000 fps will beat you into submission in short order.

Given the choice of a 300 WM and a 300 WSM in the 1885, I would take the 300 WM. Only because the 300 WM might be a better gun for resale. There is no real difference in the performance and the 300 WSM was designed for use in a short action bolt gun, which is not even in the discussion here.
Ed

longshots · Member Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 29

The only thing Winchester chambers the 1885 for now, is the 30-06. When they took over production of the gun from Browning, it was only offered in WSM's(270,7mm,&300). Browning 1885's were offered in almost all cartridges in either Low Wall, High Wall, or BPCR.

craighix · Rookie Member Joined: Aug 01, 2007 Posts: 8

First of all...THANK YOU for taking some of your precious time to reply. I have had a Winchester 1885 Low Wall in .22 rimfire, which was a tack driver. I have also had a 1885 High Wall in .405 Winchester in the Traditional model, which killed on both ends, but was also amazingly accurate. I guess I should put that in perspective... (I started hunting more than 50 years ago and was into hunter bechrest shooting for close to 20 years).
I took one look at the 300 WSM, and saw that familiar profile of an accurate cartridge.
I thought that combining that round with an 1885 would be a great combination. The .300 WSM just has to have great accuracy potential for a number of reasons ie: loading density, minimum body taper, short fat powder column, etc., But I could tell by research, that it has not seen it's attributes utilized to the fullest. Problem being, to load the cartridge in a short action rifle, the bullet has to be seated way too deep in the case, which we all know is not the best way to go. SOLUTION: put it in a single shot with a nice deep throat (Gotta love deep throat right). I have not shot the rifle yet, as I just got it on Monday. I have loaded two sets of cartriges. Both are 150 Nosler Accubond, one with 70 grains of RL 19 and one with 70 grains of IMR4831. Loading density is 100% on both, with nicely engraved land marks and an OAL right at 3.000 in.
I'm aching to get to the range, but it was blowing 25-30 mph all day....I am pretty sure it will go bang, and thats about all you learn in wind like that haha.
I will keep you up to date.
Craig

SwampFox · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Winchester 1885 .300 WSM

Craig,
I must have been reading your mind..... For some reason I thought you were doing a custom 1885.

Having been where you are going, I built two 300WSM guns on the SA MRC action to get a longer magazine and deep throat (you did get the reamer with a throat, right?). I can tell you that it did not seem to help with the velocity, but I do think the accuracy is better. My two barrels are medium weight SS Lothar Walther 1-10 twist match tubes.

I started with the 150s and was not impressed about 1 inch was as good as it got, so I tried the 168 Hornady HPBT Match bullets, mutch better. I found that the best powder (velocity/accuracy) for the 300 WSM was VVN 560. My 168 load is 74 gr for 3210 fps and groups of .30 inches. The one bullet I have but have not tried is the 165 Hornady made to duplicate the 168 measurments, for hunting. The 74 grain load should be a natural with the 165. The 180 GK Sierra that I took to Africa will do just over 3 grand with groups at .70 with 72 gr and .30 groups at 2780 with 71 gr.

I have a 1885 barreled action on order in 35 Whalen. I ordered a cut rifled barrel for cast bullets.... should be a winner, if I ever get the gun.

The WSM series is another situation where a reloader comes up with a design and a big company just muscles him aside and claims the design is theirs. Rick Jameson designed the cartridge and developed the concept loosely based on the BR series. THe WSM is pretty much just a scaled up BR round. I read Rick's articles on the concept many years ago. The design does produce an accurate round and as you want a shooter without regard to resale, you should be real happy.

Best of luck with the new project, keep us posted on the progress. Very Happy

Ed

craighix · Rookie Member Joined: Aug 01, 2007 Posts: 8

Thanks Ed for the informed input. I wasn't as smart as you when I went to Africa. I bought the 1885 in .405 to take there, but decided against it later. The nice lady at Remington provided me with a Model 700 stainless in 7mm short action ultra mag, in exchange for a story yet to be written (I have sold a few articles). I used a hot 140 grain load.
To put it bluntly, there was not much good I could write about on my return. Not that there is anything wrong with a stainless Remington 700, as we know, but the animals in Africa are not as obliging when it comes to falling over at the sound of a gunshot.
I could go on, but I don't want to stray from our thread subject. The wind is down today, but still squirrely. I have Fridays off so I will be at the range early am and give you some feedback and ask for your thoughts.
Craig

SwampFox · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Winchester 1885 .300 WSM

Craig,
Sorry about your Africa trip. I know how it is to plan a trip for a long, long time and have it turn to steaming road apples. Between the French holding our guns for 4 days (we did not go near France) and dealing with SAP my trip could have been better.

I have had several articles published over the years.
Ed

craighix · Rookie Member Joined: Aug 01, 2007 Posts: 8

Ed,
I do not find WN 560 powder in any of my reloading manuals...is it something new?
Craig

SwampFox · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Winchester 1885 .300 WSM

Most folks show the powder as VVN or VN, but is is actually VVO. VhitaVuori Oy which I am sure you have seen. The Finnish powder is pretty well known for low pressures and high velocity.

Several years ago I met the Finnish VVO rep at an international match and he gave me a reloading manual, second edition. The manual is fairly rare in the US.

Sorry about the double Vs looking like a W.
Ed

craighix · Rookie Member Joined: Aug 01, 2007 Posts: 8

Hello all. The big day arrived and wouldn't you know the wind was 5-15 and switching. Anyway I tried the two loads I had mentioned. The first load shot best. I never shoot five shot groups with a hunting rifle, always 3, and I do not shoot a fouling shot first. As you can see in the attached pic, 70 grains of IMR 4831 under the 150 Nosler Accubond works very well indeed (.592). Recoil was surprisngly moderate even with only a T shirt. In a way it is dissapointing because now all I have to do is wait till hunting season and give it a final sight in.
Craig

SwampFox · Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Winchester 1885 .300 WSM

Damn the bad luck.... no more load development? What are you going to do about those dangerous 8 1/2 x 11s at 500?
Ed

craighix · Rookie Member Joined: Aug 01, 2007 Posts: 8

Well Ed I do have sort of an excuse to go back to the range. I am using a 3.5 x10 Leupold scope with the B&C reticle. With a 200 yard zero on the main crosshair, the next one down is supposed to be on at 300. This rifle shoots about 3in high at 300 using that formula. So isn't that an excuse to go back and split the difference?
Anyway thanks for your input. I haven't run it over my chronograph either so that certainly would be an excuse!
Craig

SwampFox · Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Winchester 1885 .300 WSM

Oh, yes, a trip back to the range to get the real poop on velocity and scope adjustment.....

While you are there, check your scope adjustments for the actual value of a click. 99% of the time 1/4 or 1/8 is a rough guess at best. If you have a balistics program that allows you to adjust to actual click values and a given trajectory based on the BC and declining velocity, you can do a scope bell, tape on, adjustment schedule that is 100% accurate . Put a laser range finder with it and you will have a reach out and touch them combo.

My 300 WSM scope adjustment schedule is at 50 yard increments out to 600 yards. It is in a 8 font with clear, wide, packing tape across the surface. It is waterproof and smudge proof. When you have a long range rifle why not take advantage of the best technology.

I do most of my shooting from a shooting house across wide open fields.
Ed

craighix · Rookie Member Joined: Aug 01, 2007 Posts: 8

Ed,
Thanks for the tip on actual click values. I know that my scope will move the bullet 1/2" per click at 200.
Here's the fun part. I took it to the range today with my Oehler chrono. That 150 gr Nosler Accubond over 70 Gr IMR 4831 is doing 3380!!!!
That is about 100 ft faster than I figured. I am supposing that would have something to do with the load combination but mainly the 28" barrel length. The wind was down today so I got some reliable 300 yard shooting. It is dead on at 300 using the 300 yard increment on the Boone & Crocket reticle.
Needless to say, I am one happy camper. I am shooting this gun with only a t shirt on and no bruises...I attribute that to something I have read about short fat powder columns. Nobody seems to know why, but it's true I beleive.
Craig Razz