Thompson Center Contender

oldwest · Rookie Member Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Posts: 1

Hello from a new member. It seems awfully late to be adding to this thread but it still feels like the right place so I hope someone is still reading it. I am planning to purchase an original model TC Contender pistol frame. I have never owned a Contender but have had the opportunity and pleasure to fire one several times over the years. I have of course, kicked myself many time for not buying one back when they first came on the market.

My problem concerns the compatibility between frames and barrels. That problem is highlighted by the posts in this thread from 'roklok' and 'skb2706'. 'roklok' seems to say that all original and G2 barrels are compatibile with all original and G2 frames while 'skb2706' says that they 'will work' with $10 in parts and a few minutes work. There is obviously a huge difference between these two positions as far as I am concerned. It has nothing to do with the $10 or the few minutes either one. So far as I know by Thompson's standards 'fully compatible' barrels don't require any extra parts so while I do not have a problem with making it work I do have concerns as to possible effects on accuracy and maybe even some of the maximum strength specs of some of the parameters.

My problem is that I have seen this same type of info referenced in many areas but never with any technical detail to really explain just what the differences are or any possible effects. There are many barrels for sale but few people seem to have knowledge and expertise. This includes a lot of those holding FFL licenses today, since many of them seem to know about laws and prices but far too often little or nothing about firearms. As a purchaser and user in todays market I need the precise info as to fully compatible barrel types. I need to be able to look at a barrel that is offered for sale and tell for certain if it is compatibile with an original frame or not but I have yet to find a list of the specific criteria. Is the compatibility determined by Calibur, Model, Part Number, Serial Number or some combinatio of those? Surely someone must have a clear list or definition of the criteria. Without that info I am not even able to ask a seller for the information needed to determine suitability of a particular barrel. Being from a small rural area and NOT independently wealthy, buying only from a reputable qualified gunsmith/dealer is not is not a good answer since it is equivalent to saying 'just pour money on the problem'. If that were a practical answer for me I would not be spending the time trying to learn or write to the forum for information.

Not exactly a nutshell but that is my situation and the information I am looking for. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

K.W. · Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender

Professionals. What are you thinking abaut this? www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp

PaulS · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender

Just a note on those "equivelent" powders.
The chart at the bottom says they are aproximately equivelent within 5%.
That means they are not necessarily the same powder, but they are close in the pressure that is generated with a maximum load and bullet - within 5%. The maximum load may be way different weights.
When I saw H110, H4227, IMR4227, W296, R123, AA1680 and N120 all listed as equivelent powders I was going to object - they aren't even all single base powders. I can see that they may be within 5% in pressure of each other with an appropriate charge of each.
Paul

SwampFox · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender

Hey Vince,
Good chart, saved it as a favorite in my reloading folder. That should help as we talk about reloading in different countries. I note that right at the top is N-320 for WW-231. Down on the list is N-120 for H-4227 and H-110.

I do note that they have several powders out of order though. H-110 and WW-296 are the same powder and #9 is somewhat similar, but 1680 is not the same as H-110 or H-4227. However, without any other guide, it is at least close enough to tell what powder in an area might work.

Example of what I am talking about based on a single cartridge (my design), the 30 Harm:
165 H FBSP 13 gr H-4227 Fps 1419 Cratered primers
165 H FBSP 17 gr A-1680 Fps 1257 Flat primers
165 H FBSP 16 gr H-110 Fps 1614 Cratered primers
150 R FBSP 13 gr A #9 Fps 1417 Cratered Primers

All max loads with same bullet, note the weight and velocity difference. So one could use the powder, but you would need to be careful not to get over pressure, if you did not have a guide for a specific powder/cartridge loading.

Thanks again.
Ed

K.W. · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender

Thanks Vince. Your chart was very good. Never heart ADI or Vectan. Only Hodgdon can to find here, I hope. There in Finland it is Vihtavuori- "monopol". If some gunshop has voreigen powder to much, no more ViutaVuori powder. I think so. Maybe, I shall try something with some gun shop. Maybe New Vihtavuori N-32C is like AS 50 N .
.

Vince · Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender

Kauko Waskilampi wrote:

Thank You SwampFox. I canÂ´t to find 231 W-W powder here. Last sommer was using N-320 VihtaVuori Powder. Is it like WSL, No 2, Red Dot, HI-Skor 700X. T/C 14" 5,4gr 158 copperpladet re-sitzet cast bullet was quiet. (Ohler is kaputt!) 190gr cast bullet quiet too. VihtaVuori has new powder N- 32C (Silver Star) for cow boy shooting. I was s tarting N-32C 6,94gr for cheap BSA-pistol scope loading. It was very accurate. To day I was making 5,4gr loads and will go to tomorrow to shoot those loads.There is no loading guide for N-32C

Kauko, don't know what powders are available in your end of the world, but here is a chart showing powder equivalents. It is put out by the manufacturers of Australian powders, but some of those powders are marketed by Hogdon. For instance AR2208 and Varget are the same powder. This isn't the case for all the powders though.

Powder Equivalents

You should be able to get an idea of loads from this chart.

Cheers, Vince

K.W. · Last edited by K.W. on Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total

Thank You SwampFox. I can´t to find 231 W-W powder here. Last sommer was using N-320 VihtaVuori Powder. Is it like WSL, No 2, Red Dot, HI-Skor 700X. T/C 14" 5,4gr 158 copperpladet re-sitzet cast bullet was quiet. (Ohler is kaputt!) 190gr cast bullet quiet too. VihtaVuori has new powder N- 32C (Silver Star) for cow boy shooting. I was s tarting N-32C 6,94gr for cheap BSA-pistol scope loading. It was very accurate. To day I was making 5,4gr loads and will go to tomorrow to shoot those loads.There is no loading guide for N-32C

SwampFox · Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender

Kauko,
With the 357 Max (Super Mag) you should be able to use 231 in the 357 or 357 Max case with the 200 grain bullet to get to sub sonic velocity without loss of constant ignition. When reloading for silhouette use, I noticed that 231 does not seem to care what the case capacity is, it just shoots at the same velocity with a 38 Spl or 357 Mag cases. So the 357 case in the max or the max case should work just fine.

You might also be able to use H-110 at a charge weight below 12 grains with the 200. 12 grains in a 357 mag case with the 200 gives you 1,160 fps out of an 8 inch barrel.
Ed

K.W. · Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender

Thank You SwampFox. I shall to look after velocitys not only powder charge weight. It is my next project after the silencer load for T/C G2 .357 maximum.

SwampFox · Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender

SKB,
Things like that happen when you shoot steel for 25 years. I can honestly say that I never regretted a single TC purchase. Regardless, if there was a problem, TC always made it OK. Of course, when I went to the 10 inch 357 Harrett and stretched the frame on my old gun and then sent it in for repair, I was not happy with the result, Rochester replaced the old frame with a brand new one and destroyed my old frame. I would, had I known, just kept the old one and bought a new frame.

Most folks have no clue as to just how accurate a 10 inch TC can be and never put the time into practice to wring out the potential. As I am sure you know, the old frames do have one draw back for hunting (cost me a great 10 point buck) the internal safety has a very loud "click" when the hammer is drawn back and the safety falls. You never notice it until you have a big buck walk up behind you, at about 10 feet, that click sent that old buck into exit by rocket assist.

Kauko,
Looking at my VVN manual #2, I think there is a clue as to your problem. The max load for a 55-grain Hornady using N-133 is 25.3 grains at 3,231 with 52,200 pressure. Your N-133 load of 24.4 grains gives 3,270. That is .90 grains less powder and more velocity. Your load of 21.4 grains of N-130 gives 3,240 with the max load listed at 24.1 giving 3,217. Your N-130 load is running a full 10% less powder and more velocity. All else being equal (bullet diameter, etc) you must have a more constricted barrel (less powder but more pressure) than the test barrel used to develop the reloading manual. Rather than load to the powder charge weight, try loading to or below the max load velocity/pressure. You may be able to reduce your cratering problem and maintain the manual velocity.

Even though you are below the max charge weight, you are over the pressure listed as maximum for the powder.
Ed

K.W. · Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender

SwampFox. You are right. It must bee firing pin spring to weak. All springs and brouget firing pin are exchanget. Pin was breaking. My loads, I think are not so strong. ..Cases are Remimgton: Winc 55 gr FMJ Vihtavuori N-133 24,4gr 3270 fps. N-133 24,1gr 3240 fps. N-133 23,6gr 3175fps. N-135 25,5gr and N-135 25,8gr. N-130 22,4gr =crater very high. N-130 about H-322, N-133 BL(C)2 , N-135 Varget. All are abaut. With pistol powder 3N37 8,6gr no crater. (Mosin Nagant makes big craters. It is never mind). It must fit .223 barrel to G2 mechanism. Contender mech. works ok with other barrels. (No craters).

skb2706 · Member Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 269

SwampFox wrote:

Kauko,
What are you shooting in your TC carbine 223 that is causing the primers to crater so badly? If you are not shooting hot loads you might want to change the centerfire firing pin and the hammer spring. Sometimes the hammer spring can get weak enough to ignite a primer yet be too week to hold the firing pin in place through ignition.

Looks like you came to the right place for TC dope. Bought my first TC in 71, a 3 digit 357 octagon barrel gun. When I sold my last guns, I sold 11 to the Brazilian National Silhouette Team. I have no idea how many I have owned over the years, but it would make a pickup squat. Probably the best production single shot, for the money, ever made. You can spend a lot of money on a custom rifle and you might get it to shoot as good as a 10 inch TC in 6.5 or 7mm TCU or a 14 inch 223.
Ed

SF - sounds like you got worse than me. My first one was a four digit frame, octagon barrel 22 lr with the blocky grip. I think I 've had one of every factory chambering they made .....except a 41 mag. Nowadays most of my stuff is varmint carbine material. Currently my carbine of choice - one factory .204 bull barrel and an MGM .204 that way we can shoot conitunally on thsoe really good days shootin pds.

SwampFox · Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender

Kauko,
What are you shooting in your TC carbine 223 that is causing the primers to crater so badly? If you are not shooting hot loads you might want to change the centerfire firing pin and the hammer spring. Sometimes the hammer spring can get weak enough to ignite a primer yet be too week to hold the firing pin in place through ignition.

Looks like you came to the right place for TC dope. Bought my first TC in 71, a 3 digit 357 octagon barrel gun. When I sold my last guns, I sold 11 to the Brazilian National Silhouette Team. I have no idea how many I have owned over the years, but it would make a pickup squat. Probably the best production single shot, for the money, ever made. You can spend a lot of money on a custom rifle and you might get it to shoot as good as a 10 inch TC in 6.5 or 7mm TCU or a 14 inch 223.
Ed

K.W. · Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender

Youare spezialist skb 2706. There are grazy people in my country. I was asking rifle synthetic stock for T/C G2. Dealer says 230$ and 2 months!

skb2706 · Member Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 269

Kauko Waskilampi wrote:

Thank You skb 2706. I was speaking with local T/C gun smith. He was telling that .223 barrel is no more correct to T/C Contender mecanism if he makes it correct to G2 macanism. I am thinkig, he is unqualifed.

He is wrong.............

I am right.........

I have the parts, the skills and the time to prove it. He does not.

My first Contender was purchased in 1976, 31 years, 27 sets of dies, 20 some odd barrels from every barrel maker in the biz, enough parts to build a few extra, more stocks/grips/forends than a tree can provide...I got history.