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Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms

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rrogacki
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

I picked up a S&W Sigma in 9MM, which seems an awful lot like a Glock, for my wife to use for self defense. I'm at a loss as to what ammo to get for it. There are so many different brands out there and they all claim to be the best. Does anyone have any experience with the different ammo (Gold Dot, Hydra Shock, etc..) or any opinions. I'm looking for good stopping power, but also need something that she can practice with that won't leave a bad feeling. Thank you all for any input.

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

I bought the 124grn Federal "Personal Defense" rounds. I fired enough to know the gun was shooting /feeding them fine then left it.


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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

I dont own a handgun so this is 2nd hand knowlage from other people and my reading on infromation sources:

Winchester SXT rounds are supposed to be good. The old Winchester Black Talons are the same thing and they were "known" for there expansion on impact and penitration(Alittle anti-gun propaganda made them seem like "all dangrous" so Winchester changed the name). Hense why some people think SXT means "Same eXact Thing".

Might want to check them out. Smile

Dimitri

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Handloader
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

Check with your local LEOs and find out what brand they are authorized to carry. This is a prime consideration for personal defense. Most brands of PD ammo is used by various departments, often purchased on bid. Top considerations are the HydraShock, the Gold Dot, Winchester's SXT, CorBon etc.

In reviewing incidents where these brands and others were used, there didn't seem to be a notable difference in wound channel, penetration or effect. Any of today's quality PD ammo take the 9mm to a much higher level of performance. Feeding and accuracy may vary with individual handguns.
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deputyben94
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

Stay away from the sub-sonic rounds for the 9mm. Most are 147 gr bullets. Go with a high velocity round of the lower to mid weight ranges. The sub-sonics are known poor manstoppers. The Speer Gold Dot is very good choice as is the Winchester +P Rangers. Any of the high quality high velocity rounds would be a good choice. Find something that the gun and the shooter likes. Then train, train, train, train.
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ripper007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

I loaded some Hornady HP , I am not close to my reloading equipment right now to see what grain they are.

they shoot good, and fairly accurate for my free hand shooting.

I have no Idea on how good they are for man knock down power ? never had a chance to test that.

they are hollow points , and I know I would never want to get hit by one. I know it would hurt.

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deputyben94
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:25 am    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

I agree that the Hornady is good bullet. It is fine to use handloads for training/practice but stay away from them for carry purposes. If, God forbid, you ever do have to use your weapon in self defense you are going to be sued and if you are using handloaded ammunition some slick attorney will paint you as a killer that ordinary ammunition wasn't deadly enough for so you made your own. Practice with handloads and use good high quality factory ammunition for carry. Just a thought and suggestion. Be safe
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Hutch
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

Here's the recommended list from Tactical Forums who are probably one of the most respected in the area of Terminal Ballistics.

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP (53617)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP (53619)
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)

Note that these are the premium rounds from the major manufacturers and there isn't a "hill of beans" difference between them. The important part is to make sure whatever you choose functions reliably in your weapon. If it doesn't go "bang" every time without problems the type of ammo you have won't matter.

One final point regarding reloads. I agree about not using reloads for self defense, but for a different reason than was mentioned. The Factory rounds are all very good and you don't need reloads for any minor perceived gains. This business about slick attorneys and/or prosecutors using that against you is mostly an Internet Myth that keeps being passed around and repeated over and over again. If you're in an anti-gun area and are unlucky enough to be sued in Civil Court ANY and EVERYTHING will be used against you no matter what kind of ammo you use. If you use the same ammo as the local PD, you might be accused of thinking you're a cop and so on. NO ONE has yet quoted a case where the type of ammo has made any difference in the outcome of a trial! If it was a justified shooting the type of ammo won't make any difference and it is usually not mentioned.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

Thank you Mr Hutch...I hate myths anyway. They're right there with rumors and gossip. Same list...

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deputyben94
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

I beg to differ on the lawyer angle. A friend of mine was in a officer involved shooting several years ago and was severly raked over the coals by an attorney for having handloaded ammunition. My friend is black and the man he had to kill was white and it was in the 70's so there may have been some problem there but the fact is that the attorney made a huge affair of the handloaded ammunition. I have also read recent articles by Massad Ayoob in American Handgunner magazine where handloaded ammunition was used in police and civilian shootings and it became a very serious problem for the officer/citizen.
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Hutch
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

deputyben94 wrote:
I have also read recent articles by Massad Ayoob in American Handgunner magazine where handloaded ammunition was used in police and civilian shootings and it became a very serious problem for the officer/citizen.

I don't use reloads. As I said earlier anything can and usually will be used. Just because an attorney ranted about this issue doesn't mean it is a valid one, he can just as easily be embarrassed for being an idiot. How did it affect the outcome of the trial and what did the opposing attorney do?

Yes, Ayoob is the primary one who keeps the myth alive. He is the best known gun rag writer to promote his wisdom on the issue. I've been on Forum's with him and he was never able to quote a case where reloads or even ammo affected the outcome of a trial. He is clearly able to articulate his rationale (for which he gets paid), but again he has NEVER been able to quote a case where it has any bearing on the outcome.

There was a recent trial in Arizona where a hiker shot a couple of attacking dogs and then shot the irate owner. This individual was severely castigated during trial for using a 10mm pistol and JHP ammo. You know, a gun more powerful than even the police use and ammo designed to cause the maximum amount of damage in killing a scumbag kind and gentle human being. So, the lesson to be learned is to carry kind and gentle ammo that doesn't kill in self defense. Bonk This particular case (for those familiar with it) was a good example of the oft quoted line "it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" didn't quite work out. He had a very dumb, anti-gun jury and an unfriendly judge who did not allow some very damming testimony regarding the volatile temper of the dog owner who got shot. He also had an incompetent lawyer.
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

The Arizona case cited involved one Mr. Fish who was found guilty by a jury and is now on appeal. Most reasonable people, given the evidence presented, would acquit IMO. The issue of reloads never came up.

At Gunsite we had several legal eagles that echoed the same sentiment about using only factory ammo and suggested duplicating the type used by police in the jurisdiction in which you are living. If it removes one aspect of potential liability, it may be good advice.

Marshall and Sanow (many don't accept their stats, incidentally) listed Federal +P+ 124gr as having the edge over other PD ammo. Additionally, the new stats give the best one stop rating to the 45ACP using Remington Golden Sabre 230 gr or Federal HydraShok 230gr, the first time an auto has matched the renown stopping power of the 357 mag with 125gr HPs (96%). In fact, the 45ACP outdoes the 44 Magnum!! according to M&S.

Me? I carry daily and follow advice. I use commercial PD ammo (Fed HydraShock 230gr in 45ACP and Fed +P+ 124gr in 9mm), but, it is all somewhat academic. More importantly, I can hit what I aim at and do it quickly.
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Hutch
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

Handloader wrote:
but, it is all somewhat academic. More importantly, I can hit what I aim at and do it quickly.

You're right, handloader. It is an academic discussion and best put to bed because there is no valid reason (IMHO) to use handloads in a SD pistol. However, it galls me to see attorneys and other law abiding folks sink to the level of the anti-gun crowd by concentrating on irrelevant issues. It really never ends as any number of issues can come up in our system of Justice that have absolutely no bearing on a case of self defense, but merely fuel emotional issues for the ignorant mass of sheeple.

What is relevant is using reliable ammo in your weapon and being able to put it where you aim.

Of equal importance is to know and adhere to State Law regarding the use of deadly force. This got Mr. Fish in trouble in that AZ State law required the defendant to prove self defense. Due to a bunch of contributing factors Mr. Fish (a retried Teacher with no criminal history) did not prove that the shooting was in self defense to the satisfaction to the anti-gun jury.

As a result of this case AZ State Law has been changed and it is now incumbent on the prosecution to prove a shooting was NOT in self defense. Mr Fish's appeal is based upon that change in State Law.
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

The most important reason I am aware of is my reason for carrying handloads. My handloads are far more accurate - even at twenty five yards than any factory rounds I have ever fired through it, but I carry them because I trust them. I have had factory ammo fail to fire. I have seen others have the same problem on the range. The ammo that I load has NEVER - NOT ONCE - failed to fire for me and when I am shooting -formally or informally I hit what I point at. From six feet to 50 yards I can hit what I shoot at every time. That confidence in one's gun and ammo plays an important role in whether you can ust the weapon successfully or not. Until laws are passed that restricts what ammo you can use to defend yourself I will be carrying my 357 Magnum and my handloaded ammunition. Everybody is free to carry what they want and feel comfortable with. Nobody has to carry handloads but I will. If I am ever put in a position where I must use deadly force I hope my training kicks in - I will do everything possible to keep from having to fire and kill someone but if I have to fire, then I want the most lethal, accurate and consistant ammunition I can get for my gun. Nobody makes ammo that shoots as well in my gun as I do. I trust that the ammo that I load will fire every time. Last, I am confident that I will hit what I shoot at.
If you can say the same thing about the gun and ammo that you use for self defense then you have the combination that works for you.

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Arizona Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Best Self Defense Load For A 9mm Semi Reply with quote

I have Speer 124 gold Dots, besides functioning perfectly they are very accurate.

Oh, use factory stuff. If you ever do have to use your gun for self defense you don't want some attorney telling the jury that you reload "killer" loads.
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