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Darwin award at the range today
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 14260
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

I have often thought about re-chambering my Win Mod 94 lever gun to the Ackley Improved, but figure that the accuracy I get from my rifle now is adequate for my needs. Your Armadillo series sounds interesting...are they high or low powered rounds and what sort of range are they intended to shoot?

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
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Deer Sniper
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Joined: Apr 26, 2007
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

Vince,

these velocities are average from what my customers have reported -

.224 Armadillo / 55 gr. bullets @ 3,400 fps.

.243 Armadillo / 85 gr. bullets @ 3,000 fps.

.257 Armadillo / 90 gr. bullets @ 2,900 fps.

.264 Armadillo / 100 gr. bullets @ 2,800 fps.

.284 Armadillo / 120 gr. bullets @ 2,800 fps.

.308 Armadillo / 150 gr. bullets @ 2,700 fps.

338 Armadillo /...

.358 Armadillo / 180 gr. bullets @ 2,400 fps.

.375 Armadillo /...

I cut a set of hand dies to go with each rifle that I build, and they use Redding neck die bushings to size the neck.

Velocity is dependent on each gun, barrel and barrel length.

Some guys are using 375 Winchester brass, which is much thicker and can handle considerably higher pressures, which translates to higher velocity.

Me personally, I'm partial to the .243 Armadillo and shoot Sierra's 85 gr. B.T. - H.P. Game King with outstanding performance!
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Bushmaster
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Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10800
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

What is actually gained by having the higher velocities?

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
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Deer Sniper
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

Flatter trajectory and sometimes better accuracy.

I designed my line of Armadillo cartridges to be easy to form and load, and to be easy on barrels for long barrel life.
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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

These are all based on the Win 30.30 case mate? Very interesting indeed. My .243 thrives on the Hornady 87gn HP...loves them and shoots nice tight groups.

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Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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Deer Sniper
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Joined: Apr 26, 2007
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

Yes, all 30-30 based cartridges.

Cases are maxed out and have neck lengths equal to bullet diameter.

I have always liked the looks of the 87 gr. Hornady, but have never owned any 6mm rifle that would accurately shoot them.

My favorite 6mm bullet of all time though, is the Sierra 85 gr. B.T. - H.P. Game King, and it shoots superbly accurate in everything I shoot them in, so I'm good with that.
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pete4d
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Joined: Nov 27, 2011
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Location: Dixie , Alabama , & Louisiana

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

[quote="Deer Sniper"]From my own personal experience and nothing else!

Most "good" reloading manuals, ie., SPEER, Nosler, Hornady, Sierra, Lyman and maybe a few others, they all provide a GOOD STARTING POINT uote]


GOOD STARTING POINT
This is the main common sense rule when reloading , never take the internet as fact... there are idiot out there that will get you hurt,,,,,,,marking this ,,,,don't know how I missed this thread,,,,,, I never quite learning ,even after 50+yrs .... Cheers

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Bushmaster
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Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

Deer Sniper...I have a Winchester 94 (1949) in .30-30 that shoots 1 5/8" three shot groups at 100 yards.

170 grain Speer Hot-core over 32 grains of W-748 at 2100 fps. That is good enough for me.

I've even slowed down my .308 to 2400 fps and my .30-06 to 2500 fps. They seem more accurate at those speeds.

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Deer Sniper
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

Bushmaster,

sounds like your Winchester 94 is doing great, and I like the load you are shooting...

My shooting buddy Phil use to hot rod everything he shot, and looking at some of his targets, I asked him what good was all that speed if he couldn't hit what he was aiming at? He said he could at least singe the hair off it! A week later, he called and said he wanted me to help him develop new loads that were ACCURATE! By then, most of his barrels has so much throat erosion, there wasn't much use of messing with them. I told him to keep his best 2 guns and get rid of the rest. He did and we built 2 guns that were more accurate than anything he had ever seen. They weren't speed demons, but the accuracy was unreal. Phil started hitting nearly everything he shot at, and I finally had someone to shoot long range with. Now he was really ruined!
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

I like rounds that are based on the 30-30 case too!
The only gun I have that uses that cartridge is a 30-30 Contender but I have built two guns for my brother to cure the inadequacies in guns that he thought would do a particular job and failed to produce. The first was a Thompson TCR in 6mm TCU that he thought would get an 85 grain bullet to 2800 fps. Well it didn't of course and there were other problems with the gun eating small rifle primers in any loading. The anvils would get into the firing pin channel when the primer was ejected from the case on firing. Thompson and we could not find the cause and we new we needed more powder capacity to get to 2800 fps so we started looking at different cartridges. I did a bit of math and came up with the 30-30 case figuring that it might even go higher but if I made a mistake we could go to a bigger cartridge if necessary. We got a reamer made and put together his 6mm-30. There wasn't a lot of work just ream the chamber and some detail work on the extractor and he ordered a set of dies. The large rifle primer and close tolerance chamber cured the primer problems and he easily found an accurate load at just over 2800 fps so it was good to go. He had a gun that could shoot 200 yard groups to less than an inch which made it his favorite hunting rifle. The next gun was a Contender in 357 Maximum that he wanted for hunting bears. We used the 30-30 case and necked it up to 35 caliber. We knew this would be close to a 35 Remington in performance and we got just a pinch under 2200 fps with it and very good accuracy. It was more than enough for even the largest black bears in the area around our cabin - which is where he lives now. I was particularly proud of the 35 because I had to trim and thread a 35 caliber barrel and drill and tap the Contender he had to fit the new barrel. It was a great experience for me to do the chamber and recessed crown but it turned out better than either of us expected.
I believe the 30-30 is an under utilized case, but then I am a sucker for the odd ones. Smile

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads


Last edited by PaulS on Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dawgdad
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Joined: Feb 08, 2006
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Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

DallanC wrote:
You think they were underfilled? Or a squib followed by a live round? Its hard to really overfill a 45ACP case... I can easily imagine an under filled case though.

And I never shoot anyone else's reloads... ever.

-DallanC

I have seen a double charge of Bullseye (8.6gr instead of 4.3) blow out the unsupported base of the brass in 1911 45ACP and blow the magazine out of the gun.

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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
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Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

Paul, my favourite pistol that I owned, and I damn near cried Crying or Very sad when I handed it in to the Police, was a TC Contender 10” BBL in 30.30...I loved it. It was accurate enough for me to average 36-38 targets and take out our Club Championship in IHMSA. Shoot offs were decided by “feeding chickens” (chickens tipped onto their nose) at 200 metres. Best group I ever shot at 200m with iron sights was 5” shooting from the creedmore position. Did I mention I loved my Contender...I really miss the shooting experience.

It’s been too many years to remember the loads and projectile weight I used, but it was accurate.

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

Mine is a rifle, maybe I should send it to you, and I use Sierra 125grain SP and 130 grain Speer HP bullets with 37.5 grains of H335. Both bullets perform extremely well with that load but the 125 grain bullets are close to 1/2" all the time. The 130s shoot better in cool to warm weather but groups grow when it gets hot 95F and up. I could probably drop the charge a bit to correct for that but I rarely hunt with it and never in hot weather.

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Deer Sniper
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

The 30-30 and the 30-30 Ackley Improved are two of my favorite cartridges, and in a good single shot or bolt action rifle, that from a reloading standpoint, they are two of the most ACCURATE cartridges there is!

I have been shooting the Hornady 155 gr. A-MAX bullets for many years in the 30-30 Ackley Improved, as well as Speer's 150 gr. Grand Slam for deer and targets, and Sierra's 110 gr. Hollow Point for varmint and target. I have shot many many 1/2" groups @ 100 yards with all 3 bullets, and more 1/4" or less groups, than with any other bullet/cartridge combination.

In fact, the 3 smallest groups I have ever shot in my life were with the 30-30 Winchester. I had those 3 targets framed, but sadly enough, of all thing they were stolen! I even sent them off to an NBRSA member to have them officially measured for group size. Groups measured were .011, .041 and .062 fired from the bench @ 100 yards. Gun used was a Winchester M70 that I built, with a Weaver 36X target scope. I sure do miss that gun!
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Larry_65
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Location: Hamburg, PA USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:16 am    Post subject: Re: Darwin award at the range today Reply with quote

Stolen? Well that SUCKS big time, sorry to hear that. I try to take all precautions but can't secure everything, and what you can is still susceptible to some extent not matter what you do. I have to good guard dogs and that gives a peace of mind.
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