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45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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res45
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

Picked up a new NOE TL452-230-RF-RG2 mold a while back
an recently cast up a batch of HP's to try out in my HI
Point 45 ACP carbine. The HP's drop right at 220 grs.
an the mold comes with FN as well as cup point pins.

Since I planned on PC'ing the bullets I just went with
the TL design and the mold was on sale as well which
didn't hurt.

Some of the batch as cast from 50/50 Lead/WW's


After PC'ing them.


One of my test targets at 30 yds. has to make a minor
adjustment on POA as the Red Dot was set up for my Lee
200 gr. SWC's


Just for conversation here are my Lee 452 SWC's PC'ed


A usual group I got out of the carbine with the SWC.


THe HP's feed with no issues,next I want to cast up some
of the RNFP as well as the cup points and see how they
do probably want be much difference just a bit of drop
to compensate for.
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

love them hohohollowpoints,try to find a steel shot size that fits inside hollow and try that one out for expansion vs std.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
find a steel shot size that fits inside hollow and try that one out for expansion vs std.

Elvis, every time I plug a hollow point, I've been getting less expansion. Maybe these big gaping HPs are different?

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

steel being harder than lead SHOULD in theory push back into cavity......like a balistictip but more so. the cast hp loads we use work great and I cant say the ones Ive added steel shot to are better but they sure arent worse. also at subsonic velocity Im running them expansion isnt a sure thing so I doctor them further by adding 4 slits around front edge of projectile which should also help it to open up in a hurry.
I like them to go in and stop /dump what little energy they have in short space and hopefully not exit or when they do exit to not travel far.....
main use I have for this load is head shooting my sheep at 30-40 yards so they can be butchered for house mutton.

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res45
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

I've had pretty good luck with my HP casting expanding as intended as you can see here. The expanded bullet a 38 cal. 150 gr. NOE clone of the Ray Thompson double crimp groove HP was fired from a 38 snubby using the same alloy the 45 HP are cast from.

I just gave them a double coat of Alox/JPW lube an left the gas check off as it wasn't needed for 38+P velocity. The velocity was about 150 fps. slower on the 38's than the 45 HP's are going so I think they will expand nicely on there own.

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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

Interesting post. I have been casting .45 caliber bullets since 1960. Just curious what is "PC ing"? Many thanks. All the nest...
Gil

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

Gil Martin wrote:
Interesting post. I have been casting .45 caliber bullets since 1960. Just curious what is "PC ing"? Many thanks. All the nest...
Gil

PC = powder coat. You coat them in a powder then bake in the oven for a nice hard finish.


-DallanC
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

DallanC wrote:
Gil Martin wrote:
Interesting post. I have been casting .45 caliber bullets since 1960. Just curious what is "PC ing"? Many thanks. All the nest...
Gil

PC = powder coat. You coat them in a powder then bake in the oven for a nice hard finish.


-DallanC

How do the PC'd bullets shoot? Do they leave a residue in the barrel? How do they measure up performance wise to the teflon coated bullets?

My mate an I have experimented with cast bullets quite a bit, but we have taken a different tac...we went softer using LEE's ideas.

Is the Powder Coating something you can do at home, or do you need to send the bullets out to be done?

This may well be a solution to a problem I have been looking at for some time...the problem of hard cast bullets not performing or delivering accuracy as expected.

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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

Dallan,
Thanks for the clarity. To date, I have never powder coated any cast bullets. The folks that I know who cast bullets often quench them by dropping the new hot lead bullets into a bucket of water. Seems to make the bullets really hard and these folks swear by them. So it depends what you prefer. All the best...
Gil

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res45
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

Quote::
How do the PC'd bullets shoot? Do they leave a residue in the barrel? How do they measure up performance wise to the teflon coated bullets?

I've never seen or shot any Teflon coated bullets so I have no idea about how those bullets preform. As to how the PC'ed bullets shoot the two targets I posted are pretty much the norm I get an they leave no residue in my rifle or pistol bores an I get no smoke like you do with the commercial wax lubed or tumble lubed bullets.

Quote::
My mate an I have experimented with cast bullets quite a bit, but we have taken a different tac...we went softer using LEE's ideas.

I've been casting my own rifle and pistol bullets off an on for the past 30+ years. I pretty much cast everything form either clip on Wheel Weight or a combination of WW's and scrap roofing lead these days an shoot them air cooled,water quenched or heat treated in the toaster over depending on the required velocity and pressure my loads generate. I'm pretty much using 50/50 on all my 9mm and 45 ACP bullets these days as well as some rifle bullet and save the WW's for the higher velocity/pressure loads and use a gas check as well when needed.

As for PC'ing bullet for me it's just another form of lube that has a few added benefits in my case such as easy of long term storage an much cleaner hands and dies. I still lube several pistol and rifle bullets using my RCBS Lube A Matic and LARS 2500+ lube as I think they shoot more accurately with some loads. Before I pretty much used my own homemade tumble lube on everything. Regardless I or how I lube my bullets I've never had any leading issues.

Quote::
Is the Powder Coating something you can do at home, or do you need to send the bullets out to be done?

You can buy cast lead bullets already coated most commercial casters that offer coated bullet us the Hi Tek coating which you can purchase an do at home as well. The process I use uses polymer based powders that as used by commercial powder coating operations which they also sell to the public in small quantities usually by the pound. I've coated thousands of bullet and still have powder left over so it goes a long way.

I coat all my own bullets at home using this process. You will need a plastic bowl with a snap or screw on lid of some sort I use a old cool whip bowl and use the shake an bake method,other will just put there powder an bullets in a vibratory tumbler and let it run till there coated.

Some people use black plastic air soft beads mixed in with the powder,I've done it with an without and can't tell much of a difference as to how the bullets are coated. An environment with low humidity that helps create static electricity is your friend when it comes to coating bullets when I can't do it out in the shop on hot humid or humid days I coat them in the house an toast them out on the back porch.

You will need a toaster over. You can buy a new one fairly cheap or see if you can pick a used one up at a local thrift store for a few dollars. People bake the bullets in different way but I line my toaster tray with non stick aluminum foil and stand my bullets up on the base using a pair of large tweezers,it's slower but I like the results I get.

As to powder many use the Harbor Freight powders Red works best for shake and bake followed by the Yellow. The HF Blacks seem to work much better if it's sprayed on with an ES gun as will the Red an Yellow the HF white is pretty much useless for PCing bullets.

There are many companies online that sell powder coat by the pound or you can get it form Smoke over at castboolits.gunloads.c...ng-bullets He has good powder,prices and shipping it's where I get my powders.

All my coated bullets are baked at 400 degrees for 20 min. if you buy online from a mfg. they will state what temp and time to bake there powders at for it to cure properly. It's a good idea to preheat your over before putting the bullets in an use a oven thermometer to verify your oven temperature.

Also of note if you water quench your bullets straight from the mold before coating the PC curing process with negate the first water quenching so you will need to re quench them after removing them from the toaster oven even then they still want reach a final BHN as close to the original quenched BHN due to the time and temperature of the curing process but it will be fairly close an they will harden a bit more over time. Some good video on bullet hardness an quenching can be seen here www.youtube.com/watch?...8wPDuOtvBB

Some other rifle and pistol bullets I've coated. These we some experimental colors I played around with I pretty much use Yellow-Green or OD Green with a bit of white added or Safety Orange. Eventually I will end up just using a clear coat after I use up all my colors.
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

Vince wrote:

How do the PC'd bullets shoot? Do they leave a residue in the barrel? How do they measure up performance wise to the teflon coated bullets?

My mate an I have experimented with cast bullets quite a bit, but we have taken a different tac...we went softer using LEE's ideas.

Is the Powder Coating something you can do at home, or do you need to send the bullets out to be done?

This may well be a solution to a problem I have been looking at for some time...the problem of hard cast bullets not performing or delivering accuracy as expected.

All good questions I've had myself. I've wondered if the finish molds to the riflings or cracks and breaks up when a round is fired. I've thought about doing this myself and watched a youtube video on it.

I've even seen one guy doing it with 223 loads... which are very high pressure and apparently it works good? Atm I'm lazy and just buy Berrys Bullets which are cheap plated, lead cast rounds.


-DallanC
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

I’ve looked at the Berry’s product, but different guys I’ve spoken to out here don’t talk them up at all...basically only a plinking bullet. Maybe they send their ‘seconds’ out here or only the calibres that don’t shoot well.

I’m definitely going to have a look at PC on bullets, especially .224 and 6mm offerings to see how they perform. I wonder, does the base of the bullet get a coating, or does it not matter?

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res45
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

Quote::
I've wondered if the finish molds to the rifling or cracks and breaks up when a round is fired.

When baked at the proper time and temperature the coating bonds to the lead and will not come off the bullet. I've smashed several of my coated bullet flat as a quarter and recovered bullet from the berm and the coating is still stuck to the bullets.

Quote::
I wonder, does the base of the bullet get a coating, or does it not matter?

In general terms it probably doesn't really matter as it's basically a lubricant barrier between the lead and rifling. Using the shake and bake method the entire bullet will get coated. If the bullets are stood up on a tray base first and sprayed with an ES gun ie. electrostatic gun the bases want be coated.

If I'm shoot bullets designed to take a gas check and the velocity/pressure of the load requires the use of a gas check I still use one coated on the base or not. Bullet designs with a gas check shank will generally always shoot better at higher velocity with the check installed. I generally only leave the check off if the bullet is going to be shot a low velocity/low pressure like my 30-30 plinking loads that run around 1200 to 1300 fps.

I've only shot the Berries plated bullets in my 9mm loads years ago. I like the hollow base 124 gr. thick plated bullets which are rated to 1500 fps. They shot just as well as any FMJ in my 9mm semi-auto and Ruger 357/9mm convertible. Basically after a day of shooing coated bullets in my rifles and handguns regardless of caliber or action type cleanup is basically one wet patch and a couple dry patches to remove powder residue.
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

Those are some good looking bullets there res45. I'm looking forward to seeing how well the .45s expand. They could work well in the .45 Auto and the .45 Colt. If I ever get a chance to start casting my own I'd like to ask for some pointers. I think you're about an hour away.

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res45
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 ACP cast loads in the Hi Point carbine Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger wrote:
Those are some good looking bullets there res45. I'm looking forward to seeing how well the .45s expand. They could work well in the .45 Auto and the .45 Colt. If I ever get a chance to start casting my own I'd like to ask for some pointers. I think you're about an hour away.

Thanks for the compliment. Like anything else casting and coating has a learning curve but there are plenty of online resources as well as individuals that will guide you through the process an somewhere along the way you will develop your own way of doing things.

I'll be more than happy to help in anyway I can.
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