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Recoil Reduction For Load Development
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

Thoughts here on using recoil reducing "devices" while in the load development stage...

I am working on loads for the 300 Win Mag. The last time I had it to the range, I started to notice the recoil after about 30 rounds and thought that I should have used something like Caldwell's Lead Sled. After some online research, I found several instances where folks have claimed that the use of such devices has resulted in broken stocks, scopes out of alignment or damaged, etc.

I would only use something like this for load development. Once I have a that part of the equation worked out, any practice, scope adjustments, final sighting adjustments would be with the rifle fired from the shoulder.

As before, Thanks in advance for any insights...

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

ok..... personally Ive been there and done that with the flinch after range session....20 or so rounds from lightweight rifle had me physically unable to squeeze heavy trigger....... all in my head but thats how it was.

a great pity you arent allowed to use a suppressor...what about a muzzle brake????

a limbsaver would help a great deal and would be permanent assistance.
Nathan Fosters book series is well worth the $$$$$ to get a hold of it. it will help teach you to "handle the jandle"
basically you need to "suck it up buttercup",accept what is coming,get a firm grip of your self and by utalising proper hold techniques still shoot a good group.
first off ditch the bipod and the hugyourself technique and get a good grip of the forend...

why 30 rounds at a time????
thats 10 lots of 3 shot groups..... far more than enough to do ladder test ...and far more than enough to do seating dept tests....
thats my 2cent worth..I will try to post link to article that should help.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

www.ballisticstudies.c...orend.html

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

It's not the first time I've heard of this problem HJ, and I've seen pics of split stocks allegedly split whilst using a Lead Sled. Personally, I've never tried the Lead Sled, but when you stop and think about it, something has to absorb the recoil. If the rest isn't moving because of a heavy load of lead shot, then where does the recoil go, what absorbs the recoil? There is really only one place and that's the stock, within a little going to the recoil pad.

I am lucky in that the heaviest recoiling guns I have are really only mild to medium in that department....223, 30.30, .243, 12g and 20g, with the 20g being the most vicious when loaded with slugs.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:54 am    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

Popcorn

Watching this with interest as I have a light weight Rem. 700 .300 Win Mag to get a load worked up for.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
a limbsaver would help a great deal and would be permanent assistance.

If you don't have a LimbSaver recoil pad on your stock, this should be the first thing you try. It makes a word of difference.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:06 am    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
why 30 rounds at a time????

That is another great question. It may take multiple shots to verify if a load is a good one. But I can tell on the second shot if the load is bad. The that second bullet isn't a kissing cousin with the first, I'm not interested in putting anymore precious metal downrange with that load-bullet combination. Thus, I stop wasting bullets, powder, and time and now do my load development with single round per charge load development ladders. I'm often in the field hunting with a 1 moa load and my scope sighted in after 8 shots. If you know your rifle is capable of 1 moa or better, it works about 75% of the time for me. I load 0.5 grain increments, fire a single round per charge, and track the impact points. When I find 3 consecutive shots that group 1 moa or better, I know the middle one is my accuracy node. I adjust my scope to that impact point. If I have time to go to the range, I'll shoot a 3- to 5-shot group the next time out to verify. Otherwise I can be in the field hunting the next day.

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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
Elvis wrote:
a limbsaver would help a great deal and would be permanent assistance.

If you don't have a LimbSaver recoil pad on your stock, this should be the first thing you try. It makes a word of difference.

The rifle in question is a Kimber. It has a 1" Pachmayr Decelerator factory installed.

www.kimberamerica.com/...lect-grade

www.pachmayr.com/home/...t-pads.php

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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
Elvis wrote:
why 30 rounds at a time????

That is another great question. It may take multiple shots to verify if a load is a good one. But I can tell on the second shot if the load is bad. The that second bullet isn't a kissing cousin with the first, I'm not interested in putting anymore precious metal downrange with that load-bullet combination. Thus, I stop wasting bullets, powder, and time and now do my load development with single round per charge load development ladders. I'm often in the field hunting with a 1 moa load and my scope sighted in after 8 shots. If you know your rifle is capable of 1 moa or better, it works about 75% of the time for me. I load 0.5 grain increments, fire a single round per charge, and track the impact points. When I find 3 consecutive shots that group 1 moa or better, I know the middle one is my accuracy node. I adjust my scope to that impact point. If I have time to go to the range, I'll shoot a 3- to 5-shot group the next time out to verify. Otherwise I can be in the field hunting the next day.

Maybe I should clarify. The last time I had the rifle to the range was the FIRST time I had it to the range. I needed to get some rounds through it to break in the barrel, get it sighted in and check factory ammo, since I haven't had time to develop handloads until now. I ended up doing all that the day before opening day of the general rifle season. In between all that, I had the wife there practicing some more with the .308, so it was a pretty busy afternoon.

Will I need to fire 30 or more rounds in a single range session again? I don't know for sure, but my thought was if I can reduce as much human error as possible while in the load development stage, it might be worth it.

Right now I have some rounds ready to test with 180 grain Nosler Partitions and just picked up a box of Hornady 200 grain ELD-X, so I could see where an extended range session could be possible.

I work up my loads in a similar fashion, but still shoot 3 shot groups at different targets looking for the 3 groups that are closest to the same POI, using the "middle" group as the "sweet spot" I had never given thought to just firing one round from each powder graduation and using that.

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Last edited by hunterjoe21 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

Vince wrote:


I am lucky in that the heaviest recoiling guns I have are really only mild to medium in that department....223, 30.30, .243, 12g and 20g, with the 20g being the most vicious when loaded with slugs.

Vince,

This is the first magnum chambering I have attempted to work up a load for. I dumped my old Mossberg 12 ga slug gun when I started having some problems with my shoulder. .222, .223, .22-250, .243 and .308 were pretty much all I worked with, other than the shotguns. I still have a Bennelli Nova in 12 ga that is brutal with 3.5" turkey loads off the bench, although I've never felt anything while firing at a turkey.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

ok that surely clears things up somewhat....
youv'e just mentioned a previous shoulder injury...now in my mind that will be on your mind and will be all the more reason to be cautious to not develop a flinch .
try shooting a .12ga from prone position if you want "felt recoil" ........never again, I used to comando crawl up on parrie ducks then blast as they took off.....talk about boot with a full power load and light single barrel.
I find wearing a decent thickness coat helps a lot as it sort of spreads the thump.
would it be rude to ask why a .300 mag ???? longer range and more punch than the .308???
you said that you never feel recoil when shooting turkey..Mate that I can relate to as its the same for me.
maybe get the 180 grn partition load sorted and then sort out a lighter recoiling 150grn load that will still hit like hammer of Thor but wont knock you into next week, that way you can get used to the rifle and find your groove with it and keep full power loads for the occasions they are needed.
heck you could even go down to a 130grn barnes type and it would be as mild as .308 but with blistering pace and whallop.
just had a thought...the partitions are supposed to work better not so hot......as in better at .308 velocities than 300 WM where they have been known to do weird things like end about and total core loss.... so maybe a milder load somewhere inbetween might be a good option, from the little Ive seen of them (2 deer with 150s in 270) they are awesome.
I surely hope my ramblings help and are taken in the spirit they are given.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:33 am    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

The Partition has two lead cores. The one in the front of the bullet with likely be shed from the copper jacket and fragment. The lead-core in the back of the bullet (you can see it when you look at the tail of a partition) is typically retained to promote penetration. the bullet could easily come apart with the kinetic energy of a .300 Win Mag. I've tested Remington Core-Lokts from a 300 WM and the bullet completely disintegrated. When I test .308 monolithic bullets, I have to use the 300 WM to get enough energy to drive them to the bottom of their expansion cavity and get full expansion. The 130 Barnes TTSX is lighter shooting, accurate, but it looses most of its oomph by 250 yards.

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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:

try shooting a .12ga from prone position if you want "felt recoil" ........never again, I used to comando crawl up on parrie ducks then blast as they took off.....talk about boot with a full power load and light single barrel.
I find wearing a decent thickness coat helps a lot as it sort of spreads the thump.
would it be rude to ask why a .300 mag ?

I was hunting turkeys with my brother in law one day. We were sitting against the same tree, with him to my right and doing the calling. We had a pretty good Tom come in, but couldn't get him to commit to the decoy. I told him to go ahead and take the shot, but the dumb-azz didn't remember to put a round in the chamber before this point. When his firing pin dropped on an empty chamber, I handed him my Benelli, by this time, the bird had moved even farther to our right. By the time he pulled the trigger, he had his right shoulder against the tree, pinched between the stock and a solid, immovable object. I've never seen anyone bruise up from 1 shot like he did. Learned a serious lesson that day.

Why a .300 Win Mag?

It is a caliber I've always been intrigued by. I've always wanted one, and when I was invited to an elk hunt a few years ago, I jumped at the chance to add on to the gun safe. That particular hunt didn't work out, but now that I've relocated to the western part of the US, it seems to be appropriate.

I know I have a learning curve with it, especially having only used "medium action" calibers in the past, but am confident I can master it with practice. The first/last range session ended with a 1.25 inch 100 yard group with factory ammo, even after all the rounds down range.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
The Partition has two lead cores. The one in the front of the bullet with likely be shed from the copper jacket and fragment. The lead-core in the back of the bullet (you can see it when you look at the tail of a partition) is typically retained to promote penetration. the bullet could easily come apart with the kinetic energy of a .300 Win Mag. I've tested Remington Core-Lokts from a 300 WM and the bullet completely disintegrated. When I test .308 monolithic bullets, I have to use the 300 WM to get enough energy to drive them to the bottom of their expansion cavity and get full expansion. The 130 Barnes TTSX is lighter shooting, accurate, but it looses most of its oomph by 250 yards.

My original intent was to work up a load using a Barnes 165 gr TTSX. They seem to be almost impossible to find though. No one around here stocks them (168 grain TSX's are everywhere), but I remember reading somewhere that the 165 TTSX/TSX was developed with the .300 Win Mag in mind.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Recoil Reduction For Load Development Reply with quote

ouch ouch ouch ..your brother was lucky he didnt bust a collar bone or something.

what range/distance to you intend to be shooting to???
that will give you two parts of your equation the other being "elk sized"
1.25" is not to be sneezed at..thats a fine 3-400yard kill shot in anyones book.

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