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Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. America
Big Game Hunting topics that dont fit other categories
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TwoSeventy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:09 am    Post subject: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. America Reply with quote

If you had to pic your best (all around) Big Game load to cover Deer,Bear,Elk, Mule Deer, Moose and any Big Game I may have missed,based on the hunting Rifle you may have. What would get you by if you had to use it ?

This cover,s .243 caliber to .338 caliber. North America Big Game. I went down to .243 caliber on the low end because many Hunters enjoy using this Caliber. And this caliber may be all they have to work with.
What available rifle would you grab off of your gun rack and what load for it you have your best confidence in to possibly handle these Big Game mentioned based on the only Gun,s you have ? All caliber,s .243 to .338 have taken all of the Big Game mentioned at one time or another. Grizzly Bear,s and Brown Bear,s I would not consider in this question.
This is a Big Game question or is it a General Discussion Question ? I was not sure here. Mine is my only rifle available to me on my Gun Rack is my .270 Winchester. Load I would grab would be my box of 150 Grain Nosler Partitions.I hope my question is not a cloudy one. The all around north American Big Game Rifle favorite I use to have that would get me by, was a Savage in 7MM Remington Magnum. I went down to the .270 Winchester to reduce recoil, increase my accuracy and I felt I still had confidence in this loads abilities to take all these Big Game mentioned.

_________________
I,m a newbie but a Senior hunting experienced newbie. Been hunting for over 40 years. And I still hunt deer.
I,ve have lost track from over the years on how many Whitail,s I have dumped.Got lost a couple of times but I still got out around sunset. I am here as a good friend to help with any questions that from knowledge under my belt I can answer. God Bless. Thank you for letting me sit at your table.TwoSeventy .
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. America Reply with quote

well dude you have hit the nail fair square on the head right there...... .270 win with 150 grn partitions going as fast as you can get them/where your rifle shoots accurately/where recoil isnt stupid, and there arent many creatures on the earth that will walk away,anything on your list is half way to the chiller before you squeeze the trigger..... you have option of the 160 grn version too if wanted something heavier
Ive still got a few 170 grn speer big fat round nose projectiles left that do just nicely but the partitions have my full confidence having seen first hand what they will do.
if you want to reduce recoil even more and going for the smaller end of your list the 130 grn version could well be worth a look (speciallly at the price you fellas get them)

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TwoSeventy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. Amer Reply with quote

This 270 Winchester I have is a brand new. Ruger American. Bolt action. 22" Barrel. Wish it was a 24"

I,ve got to drift into the re-loading subject a bit under this topic discussion.

I was able to do some trial runs late last fall with 150gn partitions loaded down with H4831 powder . The rifle I had pre-sighted in. Max. load by Nosler,s book is 55 grains with this bullet but the true max. is 55.7 grains.
I presently have with this powder loaded up rounds that slowly increase my FPS gradually till she gets really crankin. When I find out what makes her happy, I will stick with that load. But if there,s a problem of getting any load to work accurate,I will drop down to the 140 grain Partitions and do the same thing of testing loads.I,ve already ordered a 50ct box of them. So if the same question was asked me now that I raised in this topic of discussion, I would have to use the 130gr Hornady Interlocks because the rifle I sighted in with that load. I did find out that the Remington 150gr Core lock sp did shoot good with this rifle but my choice is Nosler Partition eventuality

_________________
I,m a newbie but a Senior hunting experienced newbie. Been hunting for over 40 years. And I still hunt deer.
I,ve have lost track from over the years on how many Whitail,s I have dumped.Got lost a couple of times but I still got out around sunset. I am here as a good friend to help with any questions that from knowledge under my belt I can answer. God Bless. Thank you for letting me sit at your table.TwoSeventy .
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. America Reply with quote

my old rifle will print any load within the area of a playing card...put 10 different loads through it and they will stay within that area....at 100 yards thats close enough to not worry about.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. America Reply with quote

TwoSeventy, have a look at the Articles on the front page of Hunting Nut. There are a couple of Articles there that will help you decide on a good load with a given projectile weight that you can then fine tune as necessary.

My two "go to" rifles are a Weatherby .243 and a Savage .223 both of which I reload for and use for hunting.

As for a deer rifle, my .243 is the calibre of choice because the most likely deer I am going to encounter here in Queensland are Fallow and Red Deer. The optimum load I have found, and worked up, is the Hornady 87gr SP pushed by 37.5gr of an Aussie powder, AR2208 which you would know as Varget. Velocity is 3063 fps and it consistently print under one inch (.7") at 100 metres. I am playing with a different powder (Benchmark 8208) because it meters better and seems to deliver more consistent performance. It shows great promise, although it is still in the development stages.

The Savage .223 is marginal for Fallow Deer, but still capable assuming good shot placement. My preferred load for that round is the Hornady 55gr Z-Max pushed along by 25gr of another Aussie powder, Benchmark 8208. Velocity averages 3100 fps and it consistently prints just over half an inch (.63") at 100 metres.

The only other centrefire I have is the venerable Winchester Model 94 in 30.30 Win and I have a couple of loads that would be deadly on deer, although I haven't made use of it yet. Bullets in the 150gr - 170gr weight range are my bullet of choice. I am getting very reasonable accuracy from the 160gr Hornady FTX with velocities averaging 2065 fps. My mate and I are also toying with cast projectiles in the 15 BHN - 18 BHN hardness range using lighter powder loads that deliver velocities from subsonic up to around 1900 fps in the 30.30 Win. He has developed some loads for both the 8mm Mauser and the .308 that are very accurate at 100 metres.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:10 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. America Reply with quote

TwoSeventy, I test bullets as a hobby. Shooters send me bullets from all over the US and some places around the world to test and post the results.

68forums.com/forums/sh...erformance

My focus has been .277 caliber, 85 to 130 grain. I have tested the major monolithic bullets in .223, .243, .277, and .308.

The Nosler Partition is an excellent bullet but I am a meat hunter and try to avoid fragmentation. I started with the Barnes 110 TTSX but quickly shifted to the Hornady 130 GMX in my .270 Tikka T3 Lite for longer range capability. The GMX has never let me down. I've taken elk out to 400 yards with the GMX. Last year I switched to the Barnes 129 LRX and am getting larger exit wounds. It is very accurate (sub 0.5 moa) and I took a pronghorn this year at 450 yards.

I also hunt with my 6.8mm AR and shot an elk at 200 yards last month with a new bullet - 105 MKZ from CavityBackBullets. This elk went down as fast or faster than any of my .270 harvests with massive blood loss. It is expands the most of the monolithic bullets with 3 pedals and acts like a broadhead.

Regarding powder, I use IMR4350 but if I started over, I would use H4350 as a general purpose powder in the .270. It is less temperature sensitive. Using magnum primers with the IMR helps reduce sensitivity. If you stick with the heavier 140 to 150 grain bullets, I would use the new Hodgdon Enduron IMR 7977. It pushes 150 grain bullets out of the .270 faster than any other powder with less temperature sensitivity and pressure.

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TwoSeventy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:21 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. Amer Reply with quote

Vince,
Out of curiosity, have you run tests in the past something like Gel tests or as a example on to shoot through gallon water jugs to determine your best performance workable range on your cast projectiles based on hardness ranges you mentioned 15BHN-18BHN ?

What range of cast hardness if you did do tests,mushroomed the best to hunt with ? If you guys have not done so, it,s no matter, ok.

TwoSeventy
I want to say here that being a Newbie on this website Forum has given me the most wonderful feeling of kindness and friendship response from you folks more than I ever had on any other Hunting Forum. Unquote.

_________________
I,m a newbie but a Senior hunting experienced newbie. Been hunting for over 40 years. And I still hunt deer.
I,ve have lost track from over the years on how many Whitail,s I have dumped.Got lost a couple of times but I still got out around sunset. I am here as a good friend to help with any questions that from knowledge under my belt I can answer. God Bless. Thank you for letting me sit at your table.TwoSeventy .
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TwoSeventy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:44 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. Amer Reply with quote

SlimJim,
Thanks so much for your information on powders to check out and I certainly will follow up on your leads.
Now from first glance with listing on Hodgdon Enduron 7977 , would loads be attainable for proper use in so to stay under max. grain loads ?
Also, should I switch from large rifle primers which I presently use for this powder to magnum primers. Also should I always stay with the Magnum primers on all powders in general ?

Pickin your brain here. Laughing

TS

_________________
I,m a newbie but a Senior hunting experienced newbie. Been hunting for over 40 years. And I still hunt deer.
I,ve have lost track from over the years on how many Whitail,s I have dumped.Got lost a couple of times but I still got out around sunset. I am here as a good friend to help with any questions that from knowledge under my belt I can answer. God Bless. Thank you for letting me sit at your table.TwoSeventy .
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. America Reply with quote

After finding what I thought were two wonderful and accurate powders only to find the muzzle velocities changed at every range session, I did some temperature sensitivity testing.

huntingnut.com/index.p...emperature

Other shooters have recommended using magnum primers to get better powder burn at cold temps when hunting. The testing backed this up. I now use magnum primers on all my hunting loads and my remaining CCI 200 primers for other loads.

You can get the latest load information from the Hodgdon.com website. They may not cover your particular bullet but it will give you the range you need to look for your accuracy node in. Every rifle is different and you need to determine your own max. Even changing the different manufacturer's brass can have a significant impact. You likely are, but ensure you develop your loads with the same manufacturer's brass, e.g., don't mix Remington and Winchester.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. America Reply with quote

Oh, one reloading tip that Elvis shared that helped my loads is to seat the bullet halfway, then turn 180 (approx), then seat the remaining depth. This helps improve bullet concentricity.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
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TwoSeventy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. Amer Reply with quote

Slimjim,
At this website www.cavitybackbullets....-s/106.htm they indicate the 105 and the 120 MKZ Bullets. Which one would you feel would be the best DRT Bullet to hunt with. I am also including Bear.
Also what powder did your Elk kill use with the 105 MKZ .? I would like to select just one to hunt with after fine tuning sighting in. FPS must be a ripper with these grain loads. Maybe after testing, I would use these instead of the partitions.

TKS. Two Seventy

_________________
I,m a newbie but a Senior hunting experienced newbie. Been hunting for over 40 years. And I still hunt deer.
I,ve have lost track from over the years on how many Whitail,s I have dumped.Got lost a couple of times but I still got out around sunset. I am here as a good friend to help with any questions that from knowledge under my belt I can answer. God Bless. Thank you for letting me sit at your table.TwoSeventy .
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. America Reply with quote

the 120 MKZ would be the better choice for the .270. The 105 MKZ I used on the elk was in a 6.8mm SPC (AR15) with AA2200. Your regular .270 powders would work for the CavityBackBullets.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
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TwoSeventy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. Amer Reply with quote

Slimjim,
I wish listed the 120 MKZ Bullet at their website. They are presently sold out for both 105 and 120 weights.
The only load data so far that I pulled up was for the 120gr.BAR XFB Bullet.

Ex: H4831 powder/ 58 Grains / 2,918 fps / standard 270 winchester min grain load with 24" barrel. Their recommending not to exceed if possible 2,800 fps . This could cause pedal break off,s. So my 22" barrel should be ok.Assuming accuracy comes in. If not I can tinker loads.

TS

_________________
I,m a newbie but a Senior hunting experienced newbie. Been hunting for over 40 years. And I still hunt deer.
I,ve have lost track from over the years on how many Whitail,s I have dumped.Got lost a couple of times but I still got out around sunset. I am here as a good friend to help with any questions that from knowledge under my belt I can answer. God Bless. Thank you for letting me sit at your table.TwoSeventy .
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. America Reply with quote

TwoSeventy, CBB next production lot comes in the 1st or 2nd week of January so check back. The Cavity Back Bullets are designed for low internal friction and low chamber pressure. I'm shooting them at 3200 fps from my 22" Tikka T3 and I have not pressed the pressure boundaries. Don't worry if the bullet impacts more than 2800 fps as the petals that break off will form their own wound channel and the core will continue to penetrate straight on course. Here is how far the petals traveled after 8" of penetration.


_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Pic Your best all around get by Big Game Bullet N. Amer Reply with quote

TwoSeventy wrote:
The only load data so far that I pulled up was for the 120gr.BAR XFB Bullet.

Ex: H4831 powder/ 58 Grains / 2,918 fps / standard 270 winchester min grain load with 24" barrel. Their recommending not to exceed if possible 2,800 fps . This could cause pedal break off,s. So my 22" barrel should be ok.Assuming accuracy comes in. If not I can tinker loads.

What I do when I have a bullet and powder combination that doesn't have published load data is do a single shot per charge weight (0.5 grain increments) velocity ladder to determine the performance and pressure boundaries. You can use the starting powder charge for a 110 grain bullet or mid-range for a 130 grain bullet. What you have with the 120 Barnes is good enough to start. If you are looking for just accuracy you can start near 58 grains. If you are interested in more velocity I would start at 59.5 and go up from there, e.g., 60.0, 60.5, 61.0, 61.5, and 62.0 look for a steady progression of velocity. If you see a spike or flattening of the velocity that is a sign that you have reached your pressure/charge efficiency limit. Stop and take the unfired bullets home and pull them. Don't shoot them. If you spot and mark each impact, you might just find your accuracy node. If three consecutive shots group under an inch, the middle one should be where you find your accuracy node, e.g., 60.5, 61.0 and 61.5 then try 61.0 for your optimum charge weight. I've been in the field hunting with a 1 moa load in less than 8 shots on several occasions.

With the CB Bullets, you also have another option. With the powder charge vs velocity ladder, find the velocity you want to hunt with then adjust COAL in 0.015" increments to find your accuracy node.


_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
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