HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 181
BOT: 1
Total: 182
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Photo Albums
04: Forums
05: Photo Albums
06: Photo Albums
07: Photo Albums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Your Account
11: Forums
12: Home
13: Forums
14: Your Account
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Photo Albums
20: Your Account
21: Home
22: Forums
23: Photo Albums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Your Account
27: Photo Albums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Your Account
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Your Account
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Your Account
39: Your Account
40: Home
41: Forums
42: Your Account
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Your Account
48: Photo Albums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Your Account
52: Home
53: Home
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Photo Albums
59: Home
60: Forums
61: Photo Albums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Home
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Home
69: Forums
70: Home
71: Your Account
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Home
75: Home
76: Your Account
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Home
87: Home
88: Photo Albums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Home
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Photo Albums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Your Account
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Home
110: Your Account
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Home
114: Home
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Home
119: Forums
120: Your Account
121: Forums
122: Photo Albums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Your Account
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Home
132: Your Account
133: Home
134: Photo Albums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Home
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Your Account
144: Home
145: Forums
146: Photo Albums
147: Forums
148: Your Account
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Your Account
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Your Account
158: Forums
159: Home
160: Forums
161: Photo Albums
162: Forums
163: Your Account
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Forums
168: Forums
169: Forums
170: Forums
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Home
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Your Account
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Home
  BOT:
01: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
Go to page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MacD
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 1052
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:06 pm    Post subject: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

Finally found time to get out for some recoil therapy today. When I first arrive at the range my habit is to check the brass buckets for cases I reload or intend to reload in the future. I also look in the plastic wide mouth bottles hung near the firing points to receive misfires. Besides the usual 22 lr duds there is usually a few centrefire rounds. Today there were a couple of 30-06 and about 20 5.56 NATO ones. Upon inspection, it appeared that all had soft firing pin hits as primer dimples were small and shallow. When I tried the 5.56 in my rifle they all went bang. Another shooter got the 30-06 to do the same. During a target hanging break we discussed what makes a rifles firing pin fail to hit hard or deep enough for reliable primer detonation. There were many suggested causes but no clear favourate. So I put the same question to the "Nuts". So open up a cool one from Vince's fridge and share your thoughts and insights.

_________________
La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle)
Back to top
View user's profile
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

When I've run across it its been from dirty firing pins that have too much friction when released. My Remington M700ML is famous for blow-back getting into the bolt and weakening the spring or otherwise fouling the firing pin within the bolt. I'm pretty careful to make sure I fully disassemble the bolt on cleanings and lube it heavily before reassembling.

Some lubes will get too thick in super cold weather so if that is a possibility, I usually disassemble, wipe dry and try an reapply an extremely light coating of oil.

So, my answer would be fouling inside the bolt / on the firing pin first and foremost, followed by weak firing springs. 3rd I guess would be to mike the firing pin itself to see if its worn down or broken.

-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Gil Martin
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 1837
Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

It depends. I had a problem with a Remington Model 581 .22 l.r. bolt action experiencing frequent misfires. My local gunsmith looked the rifle over and replaced the firing pin spring. Problem solved. Misfires can be caused by many reasons and I agree with DallanC that cleaning the bolt and firing pin can help remedy the problem. So it depends. All the best...
Gil

_________________
Gil
Back to top
View user's profile
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3323
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

Guns and ammo are all like individuals and have their quirks. When ever it happens to me it's so rare that I just figure it's the ammo itself. With me it's mostly happened with very cheap ammo. My 40 cal. Glock did not like cheap ammo. Put some reloads in or better quality ammo and never had a problem. My AR-15 in 7.62x39 didn't like steel cased ammo (possibly harder primer) so I changed out the firing pin and got better ignition. Only reloads for that rifle tho as the steel cases tended to stick in the chamber after a few firings.


Suz

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11390
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

When cleaning the firing pin and housing never use grease or heavily oiled as this will help in collecting powder residue and other debris causing the pin to hang up. Clean the firing pin housing and oil with a thinly saturated oily rag or Q-tip. Wipe the firing pin with the same rag. Never over oil the pin or it's housing.

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

Good advice.

I oil my 700ML firing pin / spring a little heavier than normal as I want to protect it from that corrosive black powder, vs trying to really "lube" it. The gun really only goes a shot or two between cleaning during hunting season, maybe 10 or so if its been out target shooting. But either way its fully disassembled and cleaned after shooting as finished. If I'm hunting in cold weather, I'll use Bore Butter over oil.

-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

my .223 bolt action would misfire badly about 6 mths after I got it, usually cheap ammo
mate taught me to let firing spring pressure off when storing and Ive never had an issue since...with added bonus the bolt wont go back into rifle until its been turned back again.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:59 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

seems like you all covered it. I had to clean the bolt firing pin in my 50-year old Mossberg bolt action. Also had to replace spring and firing pin in 1869 Rem Rolling Block to get it to ignite. Well, guess we didn't cover the primary reason - neglect.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MacD
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 1052
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

You guys probably hit the nail as I suspect very few people actually disassemble their bolts. In some cases this is not helped by some bolt designs. The other cause we duscussed was excessive headspace which would allow the pin to push the case forward and therefore cushion the blow of the pin. There wasn't unamity on this as some felt the extractor should hold the case tight enough to the bolt face. Again design counts a lot here.

These little discussions at the range are great fun. We had a real good one the same day over a case seperation in a venerable Lee Enfield Mrk III. The case seperated about 1/4" under the shoulder. These were handloads in cases that had been fired "several" times. He was full length resizing, not annealing or trimming. While some automatically blamed the cases others, myself included, told him to also get his rifle checked out. I suspect a long chamber may be a coupled with thr FL sizing is leading to excessive stretch of thr case. Add hardened necks from the sizing and seperation was the result. BTW there was no gas escape that he could notice. The case must have sealed well below the seperation.

_________________
La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle)


Last edited by MacD on Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

MacD wrote:
The case seperated about 1/4" under the shoulder. These were handloads in cases that had been fired "several" times. He was full length resizing, not annealing or trimming. While some automatically blamed the cases others, myself included, told him to get also get his headspace checked.

I had excessive headspace in my .45-70 (0.028") which caused a case separation. that is a straight wall cartridge, however. Most of the case separations I've seen in AR platforms have been just below the shoulder. Full-length resize in a bolt gun - I hope he was only setting the shoulder back 0.001".

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MacD
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 1052
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

I edited my post. While I originally said headspace I actually corrected myself to say rifle. Excessive headspace on a Lee Enfield is usually a bolt head issue or wear of the locking lugs. The. 303 being a rimmed cartridge obviously doesn't headspace on the shoulder although some would argue this is just as critical a measurement. His rifle was a original Mrk III making it at least 100 years old. Sometimes I feel as old as that rifle and SWMBO says I definately have a headspace problem. Lol

_________________
La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle)
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:30 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

I agree wholeheartedly with both Dallan and Elvis. Only problems I've had with light strikes came from sludge in the firing pin carriage and on another rifle, a weak spring. Cleaning and a replacement spring in both cases corrected the issue.

I've only ever seen excessive headspace cause a misfire a couple of times, but that was quickly corrected. I remember on the .30 cal and the .50 BMG Machine guns, you had to set the headspace every time you replaced the barrel or it simply wouldn't fire. The CES for every gun contained a GO/NO GO gauge.

The AR platform would no doubt suffer from the same problems as the old venerable M16 which was terrible for bolt fouling, not just in general, but specifically in the firing pin channel and under the extractor.

I used to get regular misfires on my O/U 12g shottie until I realised the problem was a loose Nut...the one behind the butt. I wasn't releasing the trigger fully between shots. This can also happen with some pistols.

Another cause of I have identified for light strikes or misfires, but only on reloads, is a primer not fully seated. The initial strike would 'seat' the primer fully, but not hit it hard enough it cause ignition. The round generally fired withlout problem on a second strike.

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:03 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

also seen it with single shots if not closed firm enough...Bakail of bro in laws needed tweek from gunsmith to fix this and Ive read the Bergeras will do the same if not firmly closed...you get click but no boom.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 6396
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

Reading about the remington above reminds me, years ago I got a 788 that also have weak firing spring.
I wonder if this is a problem with remingtons?

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Range Time and the Misfire Rounds Bin Reply with quote

I own three Remingtons and have never had a weak strike. I have seen semi-autos give light strikes when there was too much taper on crimp or when the chamber wore enough to allow the round to go too deep into the chamber. I have also seen a 9mm shoot 380 - single fire. They would fire but not cycle the action.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.