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Centerfire 22 long rifle
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

Yeah we are quite lucky, no shortages for most supplies, but then again, we are paying double if not more of the prices what the mericans used to.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

Yep, right about the price mate. I paid $104 for a kilogram of 8208 a couple of weeks back. A 500 gram bottle is about $53 I think. Winchester Australia markets ADI powders out here, and they aren't slow in putting the prices up and boosting their profits.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

A gas check mold for a. 224 bullet might give you the step required for both bullet and your sized case to fit in a. 22 lr chamber although OAL might be an issue I believe both Lyman and Lee make these molds or they can be custom ordered. Obviously no gas check used nor required at the projected velocities but I would tumble lube. Like Vince suggested, a regular small pistol primer with a tiny amount of a fast powder will probably give you. .22lr performance in the HV range. I would start with just the primer and check velocities. Good luck and let us know how it works for you.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

MacD wrote:
A gas check mold for a. 224 bullet might give you the step required for both bullet and your sized case to fit in a. 22 lr chamber although OAL might be an issue

That is an awesome idea MacD,

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

I will try to get photos of the dies I made, a couple of cases in the process, a finished case but it will be a while before I have any rounds ready to shoot. I will have to make the bullet mold because the cases are thicker than a 22 rim fire case so the step will have to be smaller diameter than a normal 22 LR bullet. I also have to make a crimper - a plier typr unit that will crimp the caseonly at the neck. a collet crimper might work but it is a lot harder to make and fit than the plier type. I also have to make a powder measure.

Right now I am in the process of making some under-bore adapters for my brothers shot guns. A 410 and 20 ga. adapters for his 12 ga., and a 410 adapter for his 20 ga..

We had made some 410 adapters for his 12 ga. using steel pipe and a 12 ga. shotshell but I finally talked him into one piece steel adapters. I am turning them from 1 1/4" cold rolled round stock. Until I get done with these my lathe will be tied up in this project.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

Sure.....Get us all hyped up and go off to a different project and leave us in the air

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

Dont forget you have to LUBE the boolit outside the case, like a 22LR
And use plain soft lead.

There are lots of things going behind the scene with the humble 22LR.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

Geland,
I don't have any experience with cast bullets so I may need some input on finished size and the lube to use.
I was thinking of casting the bullets at .226" (the standard is .224 for the groove diameter) to make sure of a solid fit to all bores - even if they are a bit worn.

I have no idea for lube other than wax and should I have grooves for lube? I am thinking the nose of the bullet will ride the rifling without filling the grooves with a "driving band" at .226" diameter to seal the bullet and get it spinning.

I don't know if I should use dead soft lead or if it would work better to cast them harder. I am looking for consistent accuracy from one rifle to the next. I do want to use a 40 grain bullet - to knock down the silhouette targets without problems.

If you or anyone else can help fill the gaps in my knowledge I would appreciate it.

Paul

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

Paul
I think the bullet material should match the 22LR to get similar performance of the 22LR. here, I believe 22LR is using plain lead at BHN 5

22LR lube is applied as a thin coating on the exposed part of the projectile, since the encased part of the projectile have smaller diameter, you cannot properly expose the lube to the barrel.
I believe most makers dip the 22LR onto molten carnauba wax for lubrication, they are the hard wax that do not run and clean to use.

As for the diameter of the boolit, I guess you should match the case / chamber diameter.

I really think this is a very interesting exercise.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

Well, since the case is sized to .226 (SAAMI standard for the target ammo) I will cast the bullets from soft lead to begin with at .226 with a round nose. since the base is rebated I think I will incorporate a small boat tail to aid in the transonic region of its flight. I will start working up the drawings. I can post them as 'Jpg' here for comments.

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Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

If you are making your own mold, maybe make a swaging mold instead of casting one, will give you much more accurate weight and shape too.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

The stick on wheel weights are nearly pure lead. Casting pure lead can be a challenge as it doesn't fill out the mold as readily as lead with a small amount of tin added. Swaging is an alternative that sounds good to me but I have no experience with it except I once used a swaging punch to make washers out of sheet lead. Pure lead wire may be available in near the finished size.

With respect to lube I suggest tumble lubing with Lee Liquid Alox. I use it for bullets from. 224 to .454 and am happy with the results. Only a small amount is needed.

This is a good reference for casters. I found it an excellent read when I started pouring my own. www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Bo...ntents.htm

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

Mac, that is a great link and I have bookmarked it for future use.
I was reading on the Eley website and found that they use parfin wax to lube their bullets. They just dip the bullets.

On the swaging - it sounds a lot easier than making a rebated base mold. I can use a nose punch as the mobil end and swage the lead wire into the die to a fixed stop. (adjustable until I find the exact length for 40 grains. That way the rebated base will be "up" and the shoulder length can be fixed to ensure the correct case capacity.

I wonder how much force I will need to do a good job.... I don't think I want to make a die to fit the RCBS press but I can make a die for my Sheldon press. It should be faster than casting as well as produce better bullets.

Thanks!

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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
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NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

You do not need too much force on a 22 cal boolits.
I have made a 30 cal swaging die a while ago, doesn't need too much a force to swage pure lead. Too bad it leads my barrel badly and I never used it properly.
Simply cut a slug from lead wire or cast blanks to the weight.
Just remember to put in a small dump hole (whatever this is called) for over fill lead so all your boolits all end up with the same density and weight.

I reckon a RCBS Rockchucker is plenty good for swaging, otherwise you can use an arbor press.

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A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:16 am    Post subject: Re: Centerfire 22 long rifle Reply with quote

May I suggest to read the things about paper patched bullets? It might be the solution for your barrel leading. I'm still thinking why I never saw somebody take tefflontape to patch his bullets...
when I'm allowed enough time on this earth, that's still a project for the 375 H&H and/or the 45-70...
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