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#46: Re: I can't wait to meet the neighbors. Author: Pumpkinslinger, Location: NC foothills

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:26 am
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Suz, we frequently hunt from tree stands around here. This puts you above detection (generally) and means you're shooting down into the ground (again generally) so it's safer in our more congested/limited hunting areas. I try to get 15-20' up in the tree, depending on the terrain and growth. That may put me 30-40 feet above the creek I'm hunting over. I actually could have (but didn't) shot deer straight down below me. If you can visualize where the heart/lungs are on a horizontal plane it's no trouble to do so vertically.

#47: Re: I can't wait to meet the neighbors. Author: wiersy111, Location: Central Minnesota

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:12 am
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Shot placement is the same as any down hill shot really. I have been doing it so long that it's just second nature. In my opinion the vitals of deer are a fairly large target. With the rifle I try to neck shoot everything so I don't have to track but the majority of my shots are less the 150 yards.

The biggest restriction with the muzzleloader is that Minnesota only allows open sights, no optics. I know my smoke poles very well and am confident when I take a shot . I have killed deer out to 125 yards with my Hawken but don't think I would push a shot past 150 with open sights. With optics 200 is possible.

Bullet trajectory really comes into play with muzzleloaders, I am shooting a 385gr lead conical bullet unlike most that shoot the fancy sabots. I missed one deer with my muzzleloader and it was because I didn't adjust my point of aim.

I am good at range estimation but we still take the range finder and range different trees or objects.

#48: Re: I can't wait to meet the neighbors. Author: Aloysius, Location: B., Belgium

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:06 am
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Wiersy, what is the caliber of you Hawken? A .45? And what load do you use?
I'm still hesitating to use BP on a roedeer here. The first time is always more difficult... so give me some confidence please.

#49: Re: I can't wait to meet the neighbors. Author: wiersy111, Location: Central Minnesota

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:27 am
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Aloysius, My Hawken is a .50 cal CVA that I have had for around 20 years. When I first got it I tried to shoot sabots through it but never found any that patterned as consistently as the as the 385 gr and 435 gr great plains bullet. I also have a mould for a bullet that is almost identical bullet to the TC maxi hunter. I haven't used the maxi hunters yet since I have a good stockpile of the great plains bullets.

I have never had a deer go more than fifty feet when shot with my CVA Hawken or Traditions Kentucky Long Rifle using 385 gr lead Great Plains Bullets on top of a 100gr charge of Pyrodex RS or Triple Seven FFF. (Loose powder not pellets.) Normally when the smoke clears they are on the ground. I have recovered numerous bullets and are on an average of 95 to 98% intact.

In my mind Black powder and lead bullets are old technology that has been proven to work well together for a long time. I am not sure that copper jacketed bullets reach the velocities necessary for optimal expansion. I am a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" type of guy so the powder bullet combination I use has yielded excellent results for me for 20 years why change?

If it's the simple fact that we have been taught that lead is bad for us that is holding you back well that is up to you. Unless you eat the bullet with the meat I don't think you have anything to worry about.

These heavy lead bullets hit hard! And so far pattern excellent in all my muzzleloaders including my modern inline. Don't just take my word for it Aloysius give it a try what have you got to lose?

#50: Re: I can't wait to meet the neighbors. Author: Pumpkinslinger, Location: NC foothills

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:33 pm
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I'm shooting an Encore .50 ML, using 348 grain PowerBelt bullets. Think modern Minie ball. I wanted to shoot the Hornady Great Plains but the twist in the Encore is too fast. Here's one taken from a doe, shot at about 12 yards, after it passed through from right shoulder to left hip, breaking the hip.

#51: Re: I can't wait to meet the neighbors. Author: wiersy111, Location: Central Minnesota

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:42 pm
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This is a slug I recovered several years ago 385gr Great Plains Bullet. It's current weight is 367gr this bullet went through both shoulders and several ribs. The deer went down like a car hit it.

#52: Re: I can't wait to meet the neighbors. Author: PaulS, Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:20 pm
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Black powder and lead IS a proven performer - just like my 3006 and 165 grain bullets. I don't have to get out the bucket of hot soapy water to clean mine... Wink

#53: Re: I can't wait to meet the neighbors. Author: Vince, Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:23 pm
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Suz wrote:

... I've target shot with mine but never hunted with it, so I'm supposing 100 yd is about it, and since you're guessing the distance (unless you know landmark distances) then 100 yds is about as far as you want to judge it.

It's easy enough to draw up a Range Card Suz. The Range Card is a tool we used in the Army so that anybody who moved into a particular firing position knew at a glance where things were and the distance to prominent objects and features within your arcs of fire. It is a simple enough job to pace out the distance to things when you first move into the area you select as your kill zone.

#54: Re: I can't wait to meet the neighbors. Author: Aloysius, Location: B., Belgium

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:14 pm
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Thanks. I don't own .50 cal, mine are all .45: a Parker Hale Volunteer (which is too heavy to carry around for a hunt) and 2 Hawkens. The Parker Hale is a different story because it's Whitword, but the Hawkens love conicals with about the same shape as yours .50 but weighing about 250 grs. And I never used Pyrodex in a frontloader. Pyrodex RS is mainly for reloading cal 12 shotshells... in the muzzle loaders only the real BP.

But each time I see you over there doing such nice things with that kind of equipment it starts itching here, so I sure must give it a try. Starting with using the muzzle loaders also in the winter as till now I only used them in summer time. When you know I prepared one of the Hawkens to receive the optics of a Kalashnikov, it's even more strange that I never have hunted with them... some knowledge take many years to come in practise I guess.

on the other hand they also say: "once you go black... " Smile

#55: Re: I can't wait to meet the neighbors. Author: Elvis, Location: south island New Zealand

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:21 pm
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some of us are taking a modern high velocity cartridge and down loading it to subsonic velocity with trail boss powder behind a very soft cast lead projectile just for grins n giggles...sure do work fine for head shooting ,dont get to recover projectiles.....might have to sneak down to waimate and drop a couple of wallabies with them.

#56: Re: I can't wait to meet the neighbors. Author: Aloysius, Location: B., Belgium

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:28 pm
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I'm always in for something 'new', but on the other hand we carry a lot of respect for our game in our heads, so when I use a muzzle loader on roedeer and I would only hit it and make it run away without recovering it, I will get a few sleepless nights and I will probably never try it again...
but there is only 1 way to discover this, I know.

#57: Re: I can't wait to meet the neighbors. Author: wiersy111, Location: Central Minnesota

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:11 pm
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Just like anything else shot placement is the key to success.

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