#46: Re: Remington rolling block Author: Suzanne, Location: Eugene, OregonPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:50 am ---- Well SlimJ if I was in New Mexico he would be near by, but yeah I was hoping you would notice his offerings for the roller. It would end up costing quite a bit to both re-barrel and to thin the action but if you spent the money you'd have a new (old) rifle, pretty much. First question I'd have to ask him is if the action is "worth it's salt" or not.
Yes BP seems like a pain to me too. I'm not shooting a very hot load in my Marlin. Using IMR4198 @ 36.5grns which is around 1533fps under a jacketed bullet. I need to drop it down a grain and a half for lead bullets. I noticed a Goex powder chart for 45-70 and 400gr bullets, they show the blackpowder grain amounts starting at 50grns = 1040fps, 60grns = 1180fps, and 70grns = 1280fps. So I'd say if we want to get to BP equivalent loadings we need to step it down a bit more. I don't have load data for smokeless that goes that low in pressure (or a chronograph). I think you need to be careful with a large size case and a lot a air space, but maybe with the right powder you can be safe. Although the IMR4198 @ 36.5grns can be stepped down quite a bit without much air space, I just don't know how far to go.
If I can figure out how to, I'm sending you a PM with BP load data from Goex, not that you need it, but I thought it would be good for comparison reasons to have it around. I'd never seen BP load data before, it seems you can load up a muzzel loader to reach out better than a cartridge BP round, I used to put 90grns BP in mine and it seemed pretty tame but you have more of a push of powder burning the length of the barrel so that length is like a giant cartridge, anyway it's fun to shoot just a pain to organize all the stuff and clean up before, during and after....sheeeesh!
You can even use trail boss and make subsonic loads/cowboy action loads!
#48: Re: Remington rolling block Author: slimjim, Location: Fort Worth TXPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:53 pm ---- Glad you mentioned Trail Boss, TRBLSHTR. I just started working with it in my .270. It would work great in a .45-70 also.
Suz, table through the Hodgdon data and you will see that 4198 and 4895 at the minimum load recommendation have less pressure but provide more velocity than BP. Remember, BP is an explosive, smokeless powder is just flamable so BP creates more pressure - a quicker, stronger pressure spike instead of a low wider pressure curve that you get with smokeless. I fill the extra space up with felt wads you can buy by the bag. That makes sure the powder is alwaays back by the primer for consistent ignition. Start with one of these two powders then go to BP if you like. It will save you a whole bunch of headaches and let you get used to your rolling block 1 step at a time.
I wouldn't say the gunsmith is pricey but I did say you could end up with more money in the gun than it will be worth when you are done. You could always thin the action after the rebarrel - one step at a time. The gunsmith will know if the action is worth investing in. Hopefully, you can just take the barrel off and send the action to him for an assessment without an FFL transfer.
#49: Re: Remington rolling block Author: slimjim, Location: Fort Worth TXPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:03 pm ---- Suz, I also looked at using the modern synthetic black powder substitutes. The gunsmiths I talked to would not warantee their barrels if you use the substitutes. They say they can see the difference in the internal pitting caused by the substitutes.
#50: Re: Remington rolling block Author: Suzanne, Location: Eugene, OregonPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:26 pm ---- SlimJ is that a black powder barrel you put on yours? Was wondering because there's a black powder guy here that will make a blank for me, except he won't thread it or chamber it. Wondering if there's a difference in type of metal or something. It's attractive to me because he's the guy I bought the gun from and said he uses cut rifling instead of button and I can even tell him how deep to make the grooves, he can make it octagon or half and half like yours or what ever I want. That's for $300 and the drawback is it's another $300 or so to have someone else cut the threads, chamber it and headspace it to the action and all that stuff.
For those kinda beans, I could'a had'a newer nicer one. Yes I think....... eventually....my brain moves slowly. Well a newer nicer one, I wouldn't be able to cut up though, cause it would be a worthy shooter, but I'd be stuck with .43 Timbuktu and run outa money to shoot it.
I'll do it on the installment plan....it's just that I hate waiting. The wood I bought for the stock is so newly milled that I'll have to wait a couple years for it to dry down. I'm thinkin of leaving the action alone, i like the patina. I got rid of the rust and put some oil on it. Looks like scuffed aluminum now but it'll darken a bit I bet.
Just noticed my spell checker is British, it corrected aluminum to aluminium. Always wondered why they pronounced it that way, and if you write color it's corrected to colour, I guess it could be Canadian or Aussie for that matter too. I ran into that one time when I bought an English to Spanish dictionary too, they pronounced words with a British accent. Wonder how many Mexicans are goin around with British accents?
#51: Re: Remington rolling block Author: slimjim, Location: Fort Worth TXPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:45 pm ---- I don't think there are any difference in BP and smokeless barrels. They use the same brass cases and bullets. Just the powder is different.
I bought my barrel back in the 80's when Numrich had rolling block conversion barrels sitting on the shelf.
#52: Re: Remington rolling block Author: Suzanne, Location: Eugene, OregonPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:44 pm ---- Yeah and they had a great price on them too. Did a trigger job today and went from over 15lbs to about 8oz pull, (well I dunno what it is but it's great) what a great change. Did the bump test and all works well, might put the old spring back on and see how that goes.
Ok tried the old spring again and it's quite stiff, I'll stick with the wire spring. I think I'll leave the action alone for now, gettin to like the way it looks all beat up and pimple scarred. Looked at Green Mountain barrels and a few others, my local guy is probably getting my business. The price is the same no matter what I can find, but the local guy will go the extra mile too and no shipping costs. Maybe I can trade a gun or two to get things started along. I can't stand waiting....(you knew that)..
#53: Re: Remington rolling block Author: slimjim, Location: Fort Worth TXPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:30 am ---- Interesting, Suz. Did you see where the .45-70 barrels Green Mt. makes come in 35" lengths?!?! My barrel is 28", seems more than long enough, and has a lot of heavt. Cruising their site brought back some memories. When my barrel was shipped from Numrich, it broke out and separated from the packaging in the Fresno CA Post Office. They called me to confirm I was the reciever. The asked me "are you building a cannon or something?".
#54: Re: Remington rolling block Author: Suzanne, Location: Eugene, OregonPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:21 pm ---- A cannon or something? yeah well sorta! Well I was thinkin about 24-26 inches, don't need to be so long with smokeless anyway. Ya know the current barrel on mine is 34 inches, if it were octagon it'd be too beasty for me to handle without a fence to rest it on. Hey do you remember who did the gunsmith work on yours? I keep finding guys in New Mexico, maybe there's some in Texas that do RB rifles? Still lookin around here, haven't actually asked anyone cause I keep getting the same answers (one guy and we don't get along).
#55: Re: Remington rolling block Author: slimjim, Location: Fort Worth TXPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:49 pm ---- Suz
I would contact these guys and ask for recommendations. Dave Crossno was building some rifles a couple years back.
Muzzleloader Builder Supply
PO Box 848
Aberdeen ID 83210
(208) 397-3008 or (877) 397-3008
#56: Re: Remington rolling block Author: Suzanne, Location: Eugene, OregonPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:56 am ---- Thanks I'll see what I get from them, seems I've been to their sites except for Crossno's, his web address isn't right tho....
#57: Re: Remington rolling block Author: slimjim, Location: Fort Worth TXPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:24 pm ---- try this
#58: Re: Remington rolling block Author: Suzanne, Location: Eugene, OregonPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:02 pm ---- I got to the site but none of his urls work, maybe he's outa business? Oh well thanks again, I can spend some time looking, I got lots of it anyway.
Gonna be a while till I can spend any mooolah on it....I looked over our schedule for next few weeks and the boss is takin off for 3 weeks in October. At least it's during deer season, but funds will be gettin low....at least my stocks are doin good...I've got a 36% return so far this year, that ain't bad!