HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: qpww66
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 1
Overall: 12605

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 168
BOT: 1
Total: 169
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Albums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Home
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Your Account
14: Your Account
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Photo Albums
24: Forums
25: Photo Albums
26: Your Account
27: Forums
28: Photo Albums
29: Forums
30: Photo Albums
31: Home
32: Photo Albums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Your Account
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Photo Albums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Your Account
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Your Account
61: Photo Albums
62: Forums
63: Photo Albums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Your Account
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Photo Albums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Home
78: Forums
79: Photo Albums
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Photo Albums
85: Photo Albums
86: Your Account
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Photo Albums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Photo Albums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: News
102: Forums
103: Photo Albums
104: PointBlank Ballistics
105: PointBlank Ballistics
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Photo Albums
119: Photo Albums
120: Home
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Your Account
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Photo Albums
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Photo Albums
141: Forums
142: Your Account
143: Forums
144: Photo Albums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Your Account
149: Forums
150: Photo Albums
151: Photo Albums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Photo Albums
157: Your Account
158: Forums
159: Your Account
160: Forums
161: Home
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Photo Albums
165: Forums
166: Photo Albums
167: Forums
168: Forums
  BOT:
01: Your Account

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 305
 Pictures: 2361
  · Views: 408355
  · Votes: 1309
  · Comments: 86
 

Support our Advertisers

Force to pull a bullet from a case.
Discussion that doesnt fit other Topics
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » General

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
clembob
Member
Member


Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Posts: 28
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:02 am    Post subject: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

If you were able to put a spring balance scale on the arm of your reloading press with a bullet puller what would be the force to pull the bullet from its case for a .243 and 223 ?
Back to top
View user's profile
English Mike
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 08, 2007
Posts: 1315
Location: Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

There's an article on the www somewhere about pulling .223 bullets from crimped & uncrimped cases.
IIRC forces varied from 40-100ft/lbs.
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

I did this with the .223 a little over 10 years ago, I rigged up a digital scale from my fishing tackle box to the arm of my press and the scale went to 42lbs with no crimp on the bullet seated to cannelure. Upset on the brass case was .003", I never did try it on any other calibers.

BTW, welcome to Hunting Nut.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
clembob
Member
Member


Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Posts: 28
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

Thanks, I suddenly found that a load used many times was showing signs of over pressure. (a bulge on base of case from the extractor pin hole had appeared!)
When pulling the rest of the batch apart some needed exceptional force to separate the case from the bullet, after inspecting the shot cases some of the necks were able to grip the bullet as if they had been resized while others just had not grip on the bullet!
The cases had always been full length resized previously and had only been reloaded with the same load around 5 five times.
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2128
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

Case never annealed?
Case length exceded maximum?

When you never anneal, the brass becomes harder after every shot. Harder brass means also more force needed to extract the bullet.

After every shot or full length resizing, the case becomes longer. When the length exceeds the maximum, pressure increases suddenly (because de bullet no longer can freely leave the case)
Back to top
View user's profile
clembob
Member
Member


Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Posts: 28
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

Case length was fine the cases were Lapua.
In my 308 I also have never annealed the cases (PNY and FNM) only trimmed to length when required and they have been reloaded over 15 times.
Before reloading they have been full length sized each time.
So using a collet neck die would be better from the start.
Back to top
View user's profile
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

Sidenote- All things being equal case-wise, you can't increase pull with a smaller neck ID, the bullet will size the case to fit, deforming one or both.

If ya got some loads that are really clinging on w/o crimp something's up. If ya got pressure signs? Sky's the limit for reasons there. Back the load down and smoke some cases and check your throat etc. for cleanrance.
Also same type powder speeds can vary greatly by lot- if you load close to the MAX you can easily go way over unless you reverify and work up from at least a 5% reduction way off the lands.
Case head seperation/bulging/blowout means worn out case. Some guys reload hi-power cases over and over and over. I'll only do that with lower power pistol brass.
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

clembob wrote:
So using a collet neck die would be better from the start.

If you are using brand new cases for the first time, then do a full length resize and fire in your gun only. Then the cases will be formed to your chamber and you can use your neck only sizer. I have gone up to 3 firings on a cases before I had to do a FLR to bump the shoulder back.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
clembob
Member
Member


Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Posts: 28
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

So after neck resizing a .243 case with a mandrel of 6.13mm from a Lee collet neck die set what should you expect the case neck to measure?
If it did conform to that size ie smaller of greater would does this indicate a hardened case that was no longer flexible to return back to a correct size?
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2128
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

There are some additional items such as cleaning the inside of the neck, adding some grease (rolling a brass brush over you grease pad and then put it inside the neck) or giving a carbonpowder dipping.
And don't forget the difference between cases of different makes.

All that and maybe more also have their influence to answer your question.
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2128
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

There are some additional items such as cleaning the inside of the neck, adding some grease (rolling a brass brush over you grease pad and then put it inside the neck) or giving a carbonpowder dipping.
And don't forget the difference between cases of different makes.

All that and maybe more also have their influence to answer your question.
Back to top
View user's profile
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

clembob wrote:
So after neck resizing a .243 case with a mandrel of 6.13mm from a Lee collet neck die set what should you expect the case neck to measure?
If it did conform to that size ie smaller of greater would does this indicate a hardened case that was no longer flexible to return back to a correct size?

ID? Depends on the sprignyness of the brass.

OD? Depends on a lot of factors.

You ideally want a .001 interfearance fit when seating. This way you get a nice, even seat w/o case or jacket distortion...the "pull" force is a product of a ton of factors and is relevant only to the sum of same. Crimp add's to same- usually done for hunting/stuff fed from mags. If yer running JOTL /SS for groups you dont need crimp and bullet pull is irrelevent- allignment is way more cruicial there.
Back to top
View user's profile
clembob
Member
Member


Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Posts: 28
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

Thanks for the pointers
I was using 45 grains Vit 160 with a 100g Sierra which is just at the limit compared with the information below but mine was going at 3300.

Vihtavori V9 100 Grand Slam Speer vv160 34.4 to 39.8 2523 to 2864
Lee 2nd Edt 100 Jacketed Bullet vv160 35.9 to 42.8 2654 to 3084
Vihtavori 2006 100 SPBT Hornady vv160 40.9 to 45.4 2615 to 2904
VV160 46.3 on this site.

I'm going to restart with a new batch of brass and try Varget and VV140 maybe VV160 again, any recommendation’s on a load?
Back to top
View user's profile
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

I'd recomend the START recipe in the Vit RL manual and working up slow like from there (if nec).
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Force to pull a bullet from a case. Reply with quote

48grs of Retumbo gives me 2840fps behind a 105gr hornady A-Max. Your first load of Vlt 160 45gr 100gr Sierra at 3300fps is way way to fast, is the chrony set up right? I would try them loads again over the chrony. Watch out for pressure signs. I also have the VIHTAVUORI loading guide and that load with hornady is 4.3grs below max for hornady bullets.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » General
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.