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Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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What Moves First? Bullet or Case.
Bullet
26%
 26%  [ 5 ]
Case
73%
 73%  [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 19

Author Message
fnuser
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger wrote:
slimjim wrote:
How to keep gun nuts busy all day!

Too true!
now that IS the pot calling the kettle black.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

I think it could be either one depending on the details !!!

A benchrest setup that only neck sizes half the neck with minimum tension compared to a military round that is crimped into a cannelure ...........

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English Mike
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

They both move at the same time, as pressure is applied equally to the case & the bullet.
Basic physics.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

I voted "bullet" Why?? Unless you count the firing pin pushing the case forward in the chamber the bullet has to act against the pressure before the case is shoved back against the breech face. Like some stated years ago..."For every action there is an opposit and equal reaction." But some one has to initiate the action and in this case the bullet is the culprit...

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

Here's the thing though....does equal and opposite reaction mean simultaneous action? One action causes another action of equal and opposite value. That's why he used the word reaction, which literally means a reverse movement or tendency.

edjewmukated
Suz

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

Yup...Thats what I said...

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

^^^ What English Mike said ^^^

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

Ok I"ll answer my questions for you...... my thinking is so advanced for you...does equal and opposite reaction mean simultaneous action? No it does not. One action causes another action, which means that one action happens before the other. It's called cause and effect. Simultaneous means all at once. I believe that English M, is saying simultaneous (which is the point I'm arguing) BushM is saying the bullet leaves before the case expands (I think).

If you picture it as a pea shooter with a straw and the only restriction, being the tight fitting pea, but your straw is made from saran wrap (less dense and more flexible) wouldn't you say the saran wrap is going to expand before the pea moves?

I feel
like I'm
takin
some
bait (for what I dunno)
Suz

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

If you think creating pressure inside the case is going to make either one move you are wrong. One of them has to start the "action" before you will have a "reaction"

The bullet just starts to move and the case is [will be] sent in the opposit direction.

If neither one moves all you have is a bulgy case. Very Happy

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

Ok I get your point, both the case and the bullet are going to move at the same time. But what you are saying is the build up of pressure is not going to force the bullet to move? I better quit putting gunpowder inside my reloads!! What does the powder charge do then?

You say one of them has to start the action. How is any action started without pressure?

Ok so then you state that the bullet just starts to move.......well what caused it to move?

I don't understand your interpretation of, neither one moving. I never implied that.

I believe the first action is that the case expands, (the only movement I'm talking about is expansion) the second action is the bullet is forced from the case, during that time the case and bullet move in opposite directions.

I'll give you a second chance....



I still
like you...
Suz

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

me too suz

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

The case moves forward under the fall of the firing pin.
The case then begins to expand as the powder burns.
The bullet begins to move into the barrel.
The pressure rises pushing the case backand then seals to the chamber.
During this last step the bullet accelerates down the barrel.
The peak pressure happens at about the 3" mark ahead of the chamber when all the powder is burnt and before the bullet gets close its muzzle velocity.

I know the case moves first - with or without a powder charge or bullet.

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

You know, there are times I create controversial threads. Very Happy Very Happy

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

And this is relavant how?

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Poll: What moves first, Bullet or Case? Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
And this is relavant how?

conservation of momentum which is Newton's 2nd law.

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