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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15715 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:36 am Post subject: M-4 failure |
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I copied this verbatim from what appears to be an investigation report. (Couldn't work out how to put a .pdf file into the post.)
El Paso Rifle/Ammunition Failure
31 March 2011
During a recent Firearms Instructor Development Course there was an ammunition malfunction. This malfunction resulted in the damage of the Officers personally owned M4. The results of the investigation showed that it was caused by a telescoping round. This occurs when the actual bullet is not crimped properly to the casing and when it is fed from the magazine into the bolt assembly it telescopes backwards, into the casing causing a dramatic increase in pressure. As a result, and out of an abundance of caution, the Training Academy has recalled all practice ammo and encourages officers to regularly inspect the ammunition in the duty magazines. If you have any question please contact Range Master, Officer David Thompson.
We are extremely fortunate that all safety practices were in place at the time of the accident and this prevented the officer and those around him from suffering any injuries.
General
* Officer conducting barricade work, shooting steel at about 65 yards. Officer was using his personally owned rifle, a Rock River M4.
* Officer not injured.
* It is because of these possibilities that we stress proper safety equipment at the range - eyes, ears and ballistic vest, and designate a Medical Staging Point for emergencies.
Why
* Bullet telescoping back into case.
* Loose crimp.
Most catastrophic weapon issue I have ever seen in over 30 years of shooting the platform - Paul Howe
End of Report.
These two icons were in the email in which I received the report:
Looks like it may have been a Border Patrol training activity.
A rather nasty accident that had the potential to be much worse. Thankfully nobody appears to have been seriously injured. Can't say the same for the rifle though.
If anybody wants a copy of the .pdf document, send me an email address and I will forward it on to you.
Cheers, Vince
_________________ Cheers, Vince
Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done) |
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Ominivision1 Super Member
Joined: Sep 20, 2010 Posts: 2984 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:08 am Post subject: Re: M-4 failure |
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Ouch, luckily nobody was hurt. Remington does have a recall on different lots with that round. Remington Recall
_________________ Regards
Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds. |
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stovepipe Super Member
Joined: Sep 25, 2008 Posts: 4877 Location: Pine, Az.
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: Re: M-4 failure |
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Black Hills ball!
Rem JHP? ....hmmm....pass.
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fnuser Super Member
Joined: Dec 23, 2008 Posts: 914 Location: S.W. Missouri, U.S.A.
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: M-4 failure |
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another example of extremely well designed weapon, nobody got hurt!
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stovepipe Super Member
Joined: Sep 25, 2008 Posts: 4877 Location: Pine, Az.
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:59 am Post subject: Re: M-4 failure |
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This here's another reason I shoot "match" (JOTL) loads single shot. Not from the mag (even if they would fit).
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Joe Boleo Super Member
Joined: Dec 25, 2006 Posts: 427 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: M-4 failure |
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I hate it when that happens. Take care...
Joe
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8314 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: M-4 failure |
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Thanks for the information, Vince!
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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Gil Martin Super Member
Joined: Jan 28, 2005 Posts: 1837 Location: Schnecksville, PA
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:13 am Post subject: Re: M-4 failure |
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That was a tragic event. I am curious about the "recall of all practice ammo" used at the range. Were they using factory ammo? All the best...
Gil
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15715 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Joe Boleo Super Member
Joined: Dec 25, 2006 Posts: 427 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:33 am Post subject: Re: M-4 failure |
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I am concerned about the root cause of this serious failure. A web search of AR failures with telescoping rounds turned up nothing. A review of other sites with lots of firearm failures came up empty regarding AR problems. I agree that a round that goes back into the case can dramatically increase pressures. There certainly seems to be a serious problem with either the ammunition, a bore obstruction or some critical firearm failure. We may never know for sure. Take care...
Joe
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Ominivision1 Super Member
Joined: Sep 20, 2010 Posts: 2984 Location: Iowa
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cbsweeney Member
Joined: Jun 18, 2010 Posts: 197 Location: New York
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: M-4 failure |
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That's a pretty scary failure, very lucky the shooter wasn't hurt. I used to only crimp ammo I loaded for my AR, or Mini-14 until I noticed a couple .308's I loaded for hunting had telescoped. The bullet slid back into the case far enough to be noticeable in the ammo box. I pulled the whole bunch, and started crimping everything I load now.
_________________ Give a man a fish, and he will eat today. Teach a man to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day. |
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TRBLSHTR Super Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1071 Location: Lower 48's-left coast(near portlandia)
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15715 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: M-4 failure |
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Joe Boleo wrote: |
...I agree that a round that goes back into the case can dramatically increase pressures. There certainly seems to be a serious problem with either the ammunition, a bore obstruction or some critical firearm failure. We may never know for sure. Take care...
Joe |
I tend to agree Joe. I have fired many thousands of rounds when in the Army, both GI Ball and Aussie made Military Ball, through M16s without anything that came close to a catastrophic failure like that shown. I've had double feeds, failure to feed, hard struck, soft struck, hang fire and failure to extract, but nothing nasty. However, all of that ammo was crimped and had a sealant between the bullet and the case.
The strength of the components used in rifles today is such that it would need massive pressure to split the barrel, blow a hole in the bolt head, split the bolt carrier and blow the side out of the receiver. This accident has done all of this damage. I suppose in one respect that it is testament to the strength of the firearm that it was able to contain this pressure as much as it has.
Was it an obstruction or wrong powder in the round...who knows, and as Joe says, I doubt we even will.
Cheers, Vince
_________________ Cheers, Vince
Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done) |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9253 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: M-4 failure |
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I fail to see how a round could telescope enough to create that kind of pressure? are those projectiles overly long? my 170grn .270 loads are super duper long and I seriously dought that they would create that sort of pressure unless waaay back into the case...unless the bullet went back far enough to let some gas around the edges before it started to more? as you say we may never know.
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