HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: Issuresix
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 12584

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 36
BOT: 3
Total: 39
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Your Account
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Photo Albums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Photo Albums
14: Forums
15: Your Account
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Home
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Your Account
32: Photo Albums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Home
36: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 305
 Pictures: 2357
  · Views: 356415
  · Votes: 1306
  · Comments: 85
 

Support our Advertisers

30-06 rounds
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10490
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

Oooops....

Popcorn

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Long
Member
Member


Joined: Dec 27, 2010
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

ok. I just ran a computer simulation of a round being fired. it showed that the case neck expanded after the bullet contacted the lands, why because once the bullet made contact that is when the pressure build enough to expand the neck.

_________________
If its brown its down Smile
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2121
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

And what does this computer simulation do when you remove the barrel (or cut it right before the chamber)? Does it say that the bullet stays in the case because there is not enough pressure generated?
In my opinion what happens in that milisecond is very difficult to simulate, unless you take a lot variable things not into account. Do you 'crown' your brass? You know what happens when there are small impurities in the crown of the barrel...
I don't believe in science on that level.
What about the 6.5x54 MS, that's known for a lot of free flight and still it's a very accurate round. My 6.5x54 MS is a stutzen and just laughs with the theory of free floating barrels. The barrel is attached to the wood on 3 different places and still it's shooting very good.
In my opinion the old gunsmiths had no need for sophistated machinery to make a good shooter. On some point 'knowledge' changes in 'believe' and I stopped trying to explain believe...


Last edited by Aloysius on Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1055
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

No disrespect intended with the grashopper reference Long - When you have been here a while you will understand that.

Simply stated the bullet heel is unsupported as it releases from the case mouth for the few nano seconds before rifling is engaged.

Whose simulation did you run? was it a You Tube video?

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

This is a good debate.

Its my understanding that at the point of ignition from the primer to the powder, the powder in (nano seconds) does not ignite all at once and reverberates back and forth against the inside of the case as pressure builds up. Air space inside the shell (compressed or not) contributes to acceleration of burning the powder, as the pressure builds up, it pushes the bullet out in towards its target. As the bullet is traveling out the muzzle, pressure fluctuates at different points up till bullet leaves the muzzle. Now on firing any projectile, the gases which propel the bullet even after it leaves the shell are still high and thats why you have to resize the the shell or neck after firing since brass with 35k lbs on up will form to outside (chamber). This is a lot more pressure then required to seat the bullet and crimp it. Just have to remember the minute the bullet hits the rifling, you have friction which will keep pressures high till the bullet exits.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Long
Member
Member


Joined: Dec 27, 2010
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

its all good, lets take a garden hose with no nozzle on it and turn the water on, the water still comes out but with no force, now put a nozzle on it and u get pressure that shoots the water a greater distance. if the neck expands to quickly (before the bullet contacts the lands)the pressure escapes past the bullet. but we r talking about "nano or micro seconds" no matter the bullet still travels down the barrel.

_________________
If its brown its down Smile
Back to top
View user's profile
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7393
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

Dawgdad I believe the term Grasshopper was made popular by the Very Happy martial arts/hollywood movies. we use the term quite alot as a reference to adress your student or person you are trying to explain something to. always with great respect for person adressed. eg they wouldnt be your Grasshopper/apprentice if you didnt like em.
a good descussion. I dont know how much my bullets jump cause Ive never seen the need to know. speaking of bullet movement in chamber have you guys (and girls cant forget Suz) seen the speel on the remington hypersonic loads? a chamber inside a chamber so to speak.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
tcknight
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Oct 09, 2009
Posts: 327
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

Dawgdad wrote:
robd wrote:
This is an interesting topic.

OK Rob - you are new here so I will warn you right up fron, This subject I am getting ready to address has been a powder keg in the past Very Happy


Hmmm. Apparently no wiser words have been said. Hiding
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13494
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

Long wrote:
not ture? i did not say the case does not expand. expand or not the bullet does contact the lands before it leaves the case.. grasshopper? Ive been loading for 35 yrs and own 27 rifles that I load for. I am also a gun smith and do alot of chambering and recrowning.jump, leaveing point A and contacting point B without being at both places at the same time.

Gidday Longy...I think Dawgdad's post saying "Not true grasshopper..." is tongue in cheek mate. He is not questioning your knowledge.

From memory the phrase Not true grasshopper comes from the old TV show starring David Carradine in Kung Fu during the 70's.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10490
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

Enough of this "grasshopper" stuff. Let's get back to the argue...aah...discussion of the "bullet jump".

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...


Last edited by Bushmaster on Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13494
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

Haha Haha Haha Haha

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Long
Member
Member


Joined: Dec 27, 2010
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

like i said its all good. Im glad to have found u all to share with, when ever I try to talk to my wife her head spins round and round and she says as long as the damn thing goes off thats all I care about. Smile

_________________
If its brown its down Smile
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10490
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

Long...Just make sure you have a beer [shine] in your hand and are standing close enough to the fire to keep warm and so we can hear ya good.

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
44marty
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Mar 20, 2009
Posts: 775
Location: Cheshire, MA; USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

Long wrote:
like i said its all good. Im glad to have found u all to share with, when ever I try to talk to my wife her head spins round and round and she says as long as the damn thing goes off thats all I care about. Smile

HaHa - sounds like my daughter. Since we hunt in the thick woods here in the northeast, she only cares about minute-of-deer at 100 yards or less. While she is impressed (a little) with 1/2 MOA and better from my rifles with reloads, her point is that her shotgun with any old slugs will still bring in the venison.

I do have a question that nags at me about freebore. After using the OCW method to work up loads with different bullets for my .300 WBY Mag, I was all excited about wringing out even more accuracy by fine-tuning using seating depth. All the tests and comparisons that I have shot so far show that group sizes with this particular rifle are the same - regardless of the amount of bullet jump. Standard length rounds have about .300" to .360" freebore (depending on bullet). I have tested 5-shot groups in .020" increments all the way up to just touching the lands. No difference.
Is it just this particular rifle? Do I have a lucky set of seating dies? Exceptional brass? ( I used Weatherby, Nosler, and bulk Remington brass for the tests). Is the throat in Weatherby rifles very close to bullet diameter?
I'm not complaining, just puzzled. This rifle is exceptionally accurate.

By the way - my .204 shoots miniscule groups that amaze me. It also has a very long jump with the loads it likes best. (Cant remember the measurement, but I was surprised how long it was.)

I guess that Lady Luck is with me when I pick out a rifle.

_________________
_____________________________________

The strength of the wolf is in the pack; the strength of the pack is in the wolf. ~ R. Kipling

I LOVE YOU, LADY LUCK !!!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 7471
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: 30-06 rounds Reply with quote

marty, con't fix what ain't broke ... and ... don't argue with success. I've read technical articles where it is not unusual to find rifles that shoot well with the bullet more than 0.100 off the lands (like your Ruger). For your .300, is that just one type of bullet or has seating depth not mattered for several different type of bullets?

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 3 of 5
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.