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Gun vs reload
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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tlo7mm
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

I think I am going to just load myself some 160gr nosler partitions for deer and elk hunting, they are a little heavy compared to what I usually hunt deer with but not really overkill so I figure that way I will be set and should not have to do much adjusting to my gun to hunt anything really. I also usually run something heavier for Elk hunting but there really is no need to in my big 7.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

The Nosler Partitions will be a good choice on big deer and elk from the '06. I used to use the 180 grain for vear (black bear) and was never disappointed but my brother used one on a deer and smashed through the shoulder on the near side and smashed the far shoulder too - ruined a lot of meat compared to the lighter Speer bullets we normally used on deer.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

PaulS, I think he is a 7 mm addict and in my opinion there is a big difference between .284" and .308". I still believe that a 7 mm is nice for flat shooting, but I learned the hard way to appreciate the extra diameter on the .308 when it's about transmitting energy to the game.
And in .308" I also love the 180 gr. Give me the flat base spitser with the yellow plastic nose from Norma or Sierra's round nose, both 180 gr and I'm confident in getting what I hit (or even aim at).
So when I see a 7 mm RM and a .300 WM and I'm allowed to chose, for me the .300 WM please.


And for your info: I now use the 140 grs Nosler for reloads in the 7x57 and the 7x57R and the 175 grs for factory rounds. And for the Woodmaster in 280 Rem I still didn't find a reload that's decent enough for game.
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tlo7mm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

I do not have a 30-06, I think they are great guns but I have not found anything that a .308 can do that a .284 can't to be honest. I am considering going to a 300 WM for elk hunting and possibly bigger game but I am also thinking I may want to get a .444 Marlin. I will see in time. I also have never lost anything that I have shot at with my Big 7.

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Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. - Napoleon Bonaparte
The wisdom of man never yet contrived a system of taxation that would operate with perfect equality. - Andrew Jackson
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

It's all about having confidence in yourself and the equipment you use !!!

Went to Canada a few years back on a moose hunt......I carried my little 7mm08 with 150gr Partitions........the 30-06 stayed home in the safe !!!

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tlo7mm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

So did you get the Moose or not? I am not sure I would hunt Moose with a 7mm-08 but I have talked to those that have.

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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." ~ The Dalai Lama
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. - Napoleon Bonaparte
The wisdom of man never yet contrived a system of taxation that would operate with perfect equality. - Andrew Jackson
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

I've never hunted moose but I would want more than 150 grains of lead to do that job. A friend of mine planted a 180 gr bullet (not sure ofthe brand) in the shoulder of a bull coming out of a bog. It disintegrated on the mud that had dried on his skin. Three shots later and about 30 feet from him the bull dropped to the ground. You see he didn't much like getting slapped and he charged. he had a bruise on his shoulder and three 180 grain slugs in his chest.

This may not be a "normal" case but you have to remember that more people are killed by deer each year than by bears...... a moose is a very large deer.

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Paul
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

No moose........never got the opportunity !!! Sad

If I were going to shoulder shoot an elk or moose I'd probably use something else too. But I don't believe in it nor do I attempt it on any animal.
Here again it's about confidence and knowing what you and your equipment are capable of. I know and understand my equipment isn't best suited for that sort of shot.

For those that say what if a shoulder shot is the only opportunity you have and play the what if game. If only I would have carried a bigger gun, what if I had a bigger bullet, maybe I should have brought a bigger gun with bigger bullets.
My answer to that is simple...... wait for the right opportunity or go find another animal to harvest.....after all isn't that what hunting is all about ???

I personally don't know anyone that has harvested everything they've seen !!!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

the 308 180 has a sectional density of 271. and the 284 160 has a sectional density of 283 Smile

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

Ok I'll play along !!!

A .264 140gr. has a sectional density of .287
A little Berger .243 115gr. VLD has a sectional density of .278

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

yes, the 115gr is top end weight for the 243 so u get good penatration. the same for the 264 but the 140gr is not the top end weight but also has good penatration. I like them all, but when u hand load u can make a large range of calibers twins as far as speed and engery. 7mm mag loaded with 71 grs of rl22 and the 120 gr gives u 3565 fps and 3400 foot pounds. my 300 weatherby loaded with 89grs of rl22 and the 125gr gives u 3682 fps and 3500 pounds of energy. both need to be 2.3 inchs high at 100yds to b zero at 300. both good long range shooting and penatration.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

Glad you've found us here at Hunting Nut....Welcome aboard !!! Wave

I just can't make heads or tails of what your trying to say or imply......please elaborate more on your sectional density thoughts.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

Chambered, I agree with you on knowing the limitations of your equipment (not to mention yourself) and passing up shots that are marginal for what you're using. We don't HAVE TO take a shot, unless there is something trying to kill us.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

glad to b here. I just trying to show that u dont need guns that kill on one end and gripples on the other if u load the right bullet for what u r hunting u will get good pennatration. lets make sure everyone is on the same page,sectional density, the ratio of a bullets weight, in pounds, to the square of its diameter, in inchs. so what does this mean? it means that the higher the sectional density the better the pennatration. in 08 I shot a cow elk at 375yds with my 7mm mag with the 160 nosler in the left shoulder she went to the ground got back up and stumbled about 50 yds and went down for good. after opening her up the round broke the left shoulder and lodged in the right shoulder. so its not so much the caliber as it is the proper bullet for the caliber u r useing

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

Sectional desity may be one measure of a bullets penetrating power but it is not a good measure for what kind of damage it will do when it enters live game. The best measure of choosing a bullet for a certain size gane is the OGW (Optimum Game Weight) formula that one of the big name shooters (I'd have to look up his name again) came up with. I especially like it because it closely matches my own formula that was derived from measurements, penetration tests, and expansion tests that I did myself.

Factors included are the weight of the bullet, velocity, diameter, dynamic decelleration and expansion/upset. It is all converted to numbers and ratios and while it is not perfect for every bullet design it is the best system I have ever found.

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Paul
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