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The mini-me of ARs
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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slimjim
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Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

I ran across S&W's new M&P22 at the gun show today. It was too cute not to bring home! I bought my first AR last September, a S&W M&P15 OR, and have loved it. This little .22LR is basically an AR duplicate - every thing functions as an AR(bolt throw is not as long) and uses AR parts right down to the trigger, pins, springs, and sights. Heck, I can use the AR sights on my M&P15 when I need it for open sight matches. The receiver and hand guard are thermal plastic but seems tough as nails. I'm changing my 5.56 over to coyote brown so will more the MagPul grip over to the .22LR before I go to the range.

I'll let you know how it shoots.

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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

Nice . There addicting thats for sure Very Happy

Joe

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

Since .22 long rifle is inexpensive, 3 cents vs 40 cents a shot, it can pay for itself in short order (1215 rounds - just 3 bricks of .22LR).
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Arron
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

I would maybe change out the scope mounts. Look a little light too me, but if they are working for you then what the heck do I know. HA HA HA HA!!!

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:49 pm    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

I'm going to put a scope on it in the morning and take it to the range to see how well it shoots. It is about a 1/2 pound lighter than my S&W M&P15 which weights 6 pounds. I like the way it handles and all the controls are the same down to mil-spec lever and switch components.

I may just keep the iron sights on it for practice or add a red-dot. I shoot carbine action matches in Denton TX once a month and thought this would be great for practicing. I had been looking for a good conversion kit but had some experienced people recommend not to use one because it can lead-up your .223/5.56 barrel and gas tube. Having another rifle is ok by me. Need to get some more magazines, too!
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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

My bud just got one of those and he LOVES it. He can practice CQB with it as it in the same configuration as his M4.

+1 on the Coyote color..I like that color. Now that many companies are going to op-rod's and away from gas impingement I'm getting all silly for one too.
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

I took my new S&W M&P15-22 to the range today and did an initial checkout. What a great rifle!!! I was very pleased how it felt, handled, and operated just like my AR-15. I fed it six different types of .22 ammo and all was ingested without issue, including the 60-grain Aguila.



I shot about 200 rounds using a VX-II 3-9x and some with the mil-spec irons sights that came on the rifle. Accuracy was a mixed bag. I fired 5-shot groups at 50 yard. There was a 10+ mph wind at my back. This rifle did not like Federal Match ammo at all! It functioned fine but groups were spread out. It liked CCI Blazer the best. Accuracy results are below with some examples of the groups. Points of impact were pretty much repeatable between the different types.

Ammunition Type ______ Group Size
Federal _______________ 1.5”, 1.75”
Federal Target Grade ____ 2.25”, 2.75”
Federal Gold Match _____ 4.25”, 3.0”
CCI Blazer ____________ 1.0”, 1.0”, 1.25”
CCI Green Tag _________ 0.875”, 1.5”
Aguila ________________ 1.25”



The front fore arm end cap’s bore is the same diameter as the barrel so it is in contact with the barrel when installed. I removed it to see if that made any difference in group sizes if the barrel was free-floated (see picture below). I need to do some more shooting to verify but initial groups showed little change when it was removed (similar to my AR-15 see this topic). AR-15 accuracy comparison: mil-spec handguard vs freefloat

The fore arm rail was a stiff with it installed as without so I’m leaving the end cap out for now.



Both the CCI Blazer and Federal come in inexpensive bricks and are sufficient in accuracy for the type of shooting I plan to do. I will also have to try some Remington and Winchester ammo in the future to see if any of these shoot as well.

The magazine was easy to load. Twice I had a bullet flip over backwards and needed to use the tip of a ball-point pen inserted into the side slots to flip it back forward. I think if I didn’t hold down magazine spring as far, there wouldn’t be sufficient room for this to occur and the bullets would always stay pointed forward. The magazine inserted and dropped like a typical AR magazine except it seemed to want to be more in-line to insert cleanly. It was really nice to have the bolt lock back on when the magazine was empty.

Tonight I gave it cleaning before putting it up. The standard AR Bore cleaning rod guide can not be used. It is smaller in diameter than the bore of the top receiver. My .22 cleaning rod just clears the extractor that is fixed to the barrel so you can still clean it from the breech. The rifle cleaned up easily

Since this is definitely a keeper, I did a 15-min trigger job on it tonight, the same as I did on my AR-15 (the trigger group is all mil-spec components down to the pins). Now its trigger feels identical to my AR-15. I will initially shoot it using the iron sights for now but it warrants having a good red-dot site installed in the near future. I can’t wait to get it back out to the range!!
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

Here is the link to the 15-min trigger job. I haven't had to remove the safety lever either time I've done it.

15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job
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SuperVar
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

Thanks for the great link, I'm going to have to try this!
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

I also tried to lower the mass on the trigger hammer since I figure it wouldn't be needed on a 22LR as suggested in this post.

AR Trigger Job

Most of the custom triggers you can buy have the "hood" removed from the back of the hammer. I also helps lower lock time. However, my hacksaw blade wouldn't even make a scratch on the hardened metal. I'm going to go out this weekend and by a better blade.
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

Got back out to the range today and shot another 200+ rounds without any hiccups. This is a beautiful little gun. Switched back and forth between my AR-15 and this AR-22LR and really can't tell the difference other than low recoil which allows follow-up shots as quick as I can pull the trigger and I DON'T HAVE TO PICK UP MY BRASS!!! It was 40 degrees with a North wind in my face. CCI target ammo still does the best (1" at 50 yds). Started shooting 10-shot groups. Will use it in my AR Carbine match this coming weekend. The trigger mod works great!. Its smooth. I don't think I would want a comp trigger for the action shooting or hunting I am doing. (will get a JP comp trigger when I build my long range AR)

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

took the AR 22LR out to the range with some more ammo. It was a bluster day with gusts over 20 mph. Even at the bench rest, the wind would move your body around. Shot some 5-shot groups then shot some 10-shot groups with the ones that shot the best. Had Ely Target, RWS Target, CCI Mini-Mag, and Winchester.



One round of the RWS failed to cycle but had no problems with the others. I've read lots of posts that do not recommend Remington 22 ammo for semi-autos but since this was made by Ely, I thought I would try it. I'm glad I did. I think the groups would have been better on a calmer day.

Ammunition Type ______ Group Size
CCI Mini-Mag___________ 1.25”, 1.75” (10-shot)
RWS Target Rife________ 1.25”, 2.1”
Ely Target Rife _________ 1.0”, 1.3” (10-shot)
Winchester ____________ 1.25” (10-shot)



I love this rifle and the ability to train without having to fire my AR-15 all the time and pick-up its brass.
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tcknight
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Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

I have never used an AR type rifle before so I really would like to know some things guys. These groups with this .22 are great considering Slim is shooting with open sights. So, how accurate are these guns when shooting with scopes?

I would guess that they would make GREAT predator calling rifles since most shots are under 100 yards. How expensive are they? What calibers are available?

I have just never paid attention since I have always been a bolt action shooter. I'm trying to catch up.

Tim
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

tcknight, these are groups shot with a 3-9x VXII Leupold scope. You can see there is signficiant variation in accuracy based on the ammo used. For me 10-shot groups with an inch is pretty good accuracy and is the best, if not better, than my other 22's do including my Ruger 10-22. I think the last groups I shot would have been 75% smaller on a calm day. I've heard the Aguila 60gr is often used on coyotes inside of 100 yards and its a quite round.

The beauty of this AR in 22LR is its inexpensive to shoot and great for training since it matches the functionality of the AR-15. Start searching the web and you will find lots of information. I didn't start noticing ARs until last September. You can catch up quickly. There is a dedicated AR thread that you should check out. I'll answer some more of your question there.
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: The mini-me of ARs Reply with quote

Here is the link to the AR Thread.

AR Thread
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