Lead vs Copper Bullet

slimjim · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:52 am Post subject: Lead vs Copper Bullet

I've been hearing a bit of "noise" about lead fragments being found in game meat and thought this was just greenies starting to infringe on my hunting rights. Then I found these videos on YouTube. Now I'm not so sure. There appears to be some good analysis behind what these guys did. Too much work to be just a hoax.

Lead vs Cooper Bullets Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Pumpkinslinger · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

I've seen and read some about this and some of the claims seem pretty silly. Even their x-rays of the wound channel would indicate that, if you remove the bloodshot meat, you'd pretty well remove any fragments. I don't think any of us eat the contents of the gut pile either.

I have a couple questions:

Lead bullets have been used for hundreds of years. Have you EVER heard of a hunter or his family members having a problem with lead poisoning from their food?

As for the condor thing, wouldn't this problem be nation wide with ALL scavengers? I have looked and didn't find anything saying that other buzzards, possums, coyotes, etc are being affected.

Bushmaster · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

Ingestion of lead by mouth will not give you lead poisoning. It won't be in your body long enough. You'll just flush it down the toilet. People have carried lead bullets around in their bodies from wounds that could not have the bullet removed and didn't die of lead poisoning. But old age will get you everytime. Very Happy

stovepipe · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

Lead ban's are all over out here in tree-hugger land. Thank God for Barne's!

Welcome to my life.... *groan* Oh and it's a HUGE fine for even just possesing a lead projectile, whether or not it's in a gun.

www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlif...ng/condor/

chambered221 · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

I don’t necessarily dispute their findings but....... Pumpkin and Bushy pretty much some up my opinion on the matter !!!
Besides that whenever I’m eating squirrel.....I usually spit the BB’s out when I find them.

wtf

I’ve got shooting friends that won’t even handle lead bullets because their doctors have convinced them handling alone can lead to poisoning!!! With that rational it’s easy to understand why the agenda has made it as far as it has.

stovepipe · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

The world finally came to it's senses and debunked Global Warming this past couple of weeks. Maybe someday this lead scare will pass.

A little common sense goes a long way.

Bushmaster · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

Now if you go to eating powdered lead you just might have a problem, but chunks of lead don't asimulate into the blood all that easy. Handling lead bullets then sucking your thumb will cause lead poisoning for sure. Still you have to handle a lot of lead and suck your thumb habitually. If you smelt lead for bullets you need to take precautions to not breath the fumes. But that's why they invented ventilation...

stovepipe · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

Nail on the head Bushy.

slimjim · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

Thanks for the replies. I stopped hunting squirrels and rabbits with a shotgun and started using a .22LR because I got tired of picking lead out of my meat at the dinner table.

I agree that man has used lead for a long time and there has been no evidence of a problem. I think what surprised me the most was the amount of fragmentation that they collected.

I thought this was interesting and just wanted to get it out there.

Aloysius · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

Better avoid this discussion because you never know who would read it and what he will do with it. As from this year, lead shot is totally banned for hunting in the Northern part of Belgium. A few weeks ago we had our first known accident: a hunter almost died because 8 balls of steelshot entered his apendix, blocked it because they sticked together due to rust. I've also been told that sheep died because they got hit with 2 balls of steel shot, folowed by rust and inflammation. Even trees that get steelshot are poisoned by ironoxide. In Sweden they already banned the steelshot again.
And for me: I get very tired each time stupid people interfere and try to push well-educated, experienced professionals into a handicapped situation, just because they like to change for a change and don't change to get an improvement.

Recently I've been told that the leadcontents in my blood is too high. Why? Not because I like to eat game but because I'm not alowed to train anymore out here in my backyard. Now I go every week to a dark cellar with bad ventilation. I even have to pay 100 euro every year to be a member of this leadsucking club... and I have to be a member because when I don't get at least 12 stamps every year, I could loose my licenses.

So watch out. It starts with fairy tales about lead... and nobody will mention the tonnes of radioactive material used by the military to put in their bombs... and at the end, because of common sence or public safety or whatever, they start interfering and suddenly everything your dad told you is bad. Better stop it before this talk starts, I already know where it ends! Guard your rights before they are gone.

And for the ones that like to oblige the use of leadless brass bullets: do you know somebody who is still eating with a cupper spoon every day (as it happened so many years ago)? Lots of cupric or cuprous salts are also poisonous... so only golden and silver bullets alowed?

chambered221 · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

And next will be the investigation as to why so many shooters have high lead counts....... I think we know what will follow that !!! Ignore

Suzanne · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

Organic lead is much more toxic than inorganic (or processed lead) because of its solubility with blood. They used to use organic lead in gasoline that's why the ban. Just being exposed to leaded gasoline on your skin, the lead has the ability to enter your system through the skin cells. Prolonged repeated exposure and it builds up in your blood. I think mostly they are concerned with children being exposed because their organs are still developing and growing. The long term effects develop into symptoms that you would normally see in aging adults and most people probably don't get diagnosed but get treated for the symptoms. Hearing loss, can't sleep, bad kidney function, slow learner, headaches all occur as a result, and if you get enough lead to cause symptoms then you have also stored lead in your soft tissue, bones, fingernails and blood. If it is stored in your blood it might be there for weeks but if it's in your bones it can be there slowly leaching lead into your blood for years and years causing everything in your body exposed to blood to be also exposed to lead. It's a long term thing that easily prevented and it's reversable unless you have some central nervous system damage, they just let you hallucinate your way to oblivion and you go out and suck out dead animals eyeballs to taste the salt and then you start stalking people and stealing dogs and cats and knifing your neighbors and cutting break lines and wearing underware that's obviously too small and speaking of that....no...anyway I just read that it can be harmful.....

(subliminal)
Suz

stovepipe · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

Suzanne wrote:

they just let you hallucinate your way to oblivion and you go out and suck out dead animals eyeballs to taste the salt and then you start stalking people and stealing dogs and cats and knifing your neighbors and cutting break lines and wearing underware that's obviously too small and speaking of that....no...anyway I just read that it can be harmful.....
(subliminal)
Suz

...I love this woman. Cool

Bushmaster · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

ya'll better look out. I spent a lot of years working in and around leaded gasoline. Years as a service station attendent and many more years as a mechanic using leaded gasoline as a cleaning solvent and no protective gloves...

Let's see. Now where did I put that knife??...By the way...Where did the damned cat go? Insane

Anybody seen that cat?

stovepipe · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Lead vs Copper Bullet

...been a while since the whole 'cat thing' got started up again... weeee! Very Happy