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gunshow powder & primers
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:51 pm    Post subject: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

Just went to a gun collectors gun show in Eugene, Or. there were lots of kegs of powder and lots of primers of every sort for sale. CCI large rifle primers were $30/1000 and the powders were reasonably priced but admittedly higher than usual. Some of the cowboys selling powder had some rather old kegs too that they were trying obviously to get a few more bucks out of. Was surprised at the amount of loaded ammo in case lots for sale. The last two gun shows here have been sparse to none on the ammo components. I was looking for a Schmidt K-31 for sale, only found one and it was $275.....I passed.... thenut-to- butt crowd there was getting to me, an I know I'll be getting the flu any time now.

(sneezin) Suz

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

The K-31s are neat rifles, hope you can find one.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

Thanks Pumpy, I've been reading some stuff about reloading for them. They're very sensitive to proper OAL because the original bullets they were designed to use were very pointy and modern day bullets have less taper near the tip. If you load a bullet according to the prescribed OAL it might jam in the lead when you chamber it. Anyway's.... always best to gauge the chamber on millitary surplus rifles, I have always been told the milsurps had some built in slop, apparently the K-31s have short throats. I've measured all my rifles that I reload for to try and come up with the optimum distance to the lead, but this is the first time I've ever seen a warning about reloading a prescribed OAL. Do you know any other interesting tidbits about the K-31 or the Swiss 7.5X55 round? I guess you use a .308 bullet and I found out that Redding makes a Swiss die specifically for the K-31 chamber, the other brands are cut for the 1911 chamber. Ok I wanna shoot one now!


My chamber measurments
are not needed to determine
optimum OAL.....OH!

Suz

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

You may know to check under the butt plate for a piece of paper with the name of the soldier the rifle had been issued to. Also check >> www.swissrifles.com/

I've loaded the Hornady .308 165 grain SST in my K-31 but haven't worked up any pet load. Got about 2" groups so far.

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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

I rarely go to gun shows any more because they are mostly a waste of time. The same stale, overpriced merchandise seems to keep reappearing along with the tools, beef jerky, clothes and Nazi stuff. I do much better at gun shops.

I have several K31 Carbines and have used RCBS dies, IMR4895 powder and 150 grain .308 bullets without any problems. K31s show up around here in very good condition for reasonable prices. All the best...
Gil

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

I hate gun shows! Todate I've found and purchased exactly 0 items in all of the shows I've attended. Waste of money anymore. Like Gil, I find trolling through a couple mom-and-pop gun stores yeilds alot more items of interest.

Lately trolling pawn shops has proved quite interesting. I found an exceptional 1883 45-70 the other day, told my dad about it and he promptly ran down and bought it. I'd really like to find another norinco JW-20 .22 takedown. They are clones to the Browning takedown and are very accurate and fun guns. The last one I found and bought I paid under $80 for (gave to my wife).

Anywho, I agree with gunshows not being as useful / fun as they used to be.


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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

I traveled the gun show circuit for many years displaying my OM Rugers. I also promoted two shows for 5 years during the 1980s. Here in the SE and in the past few years the shows have gone from a fair sampling of normal stuff to a black gun show full of military and military style guns and all the stuff to make them shoot, just table after table of the same thing, at nausea and at retail plus, prices. It is indeed a sad state of affairs that the show promoters find themselves in today and the blame lies with the guy they look at every morning in the mirror. When they stopped having display only tables for free, it started a down hill slide to where we are now, a glorified flea market.

I try to go out to Tulsa every April as the Tulsa show still has a great variety of things on tables and walking in the door.
Best,
Ed

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: gu?nshow powder & primers Reply with quote

Hey PumpSling!! yeah I've heard about the slip of paper under the butt plate, just read about someone who contacted someone who was related to the person on the note. It was interesting, the Swiss could take the rifle home when done with the required military stint and most of those guys took pretty good care of them. Makes them more desirable in my eyes. From what I've heard you should get better results out of yours, just need to refine the load I guess, but also you might try free floating the barrel. I don't have instructions on doing that but a guy in this forum has some interesting thoughts on it. It's a Swiss rifle forum (maybe the one you pointed me to?) I'm on lunch break right now, I haven't checked out the forum you suggested yet


gottago
Suz

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

Hey suz I have some loads for the 180 g bullets I had a 1911 in the early 90's and everything I loaded was safe in it. I would think the jump to the lands or the jam into them would rely more on the personality of the bullet then the rifle and would change between like a Sierra or a Berger. Does that make sense? P.m. me for those loads. I got data for 8 different powders.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

Hey Fnuser!! Yeah makes sense, if the two (Sierra or Berger) are designed with more or less taper or belly in the point. I have an article I want you to read tho. I PM ed it to you. One of the statements the guy makes is; " The olgive of the Swiss bullet doesn’t increase in size to .308 until a lot further back; so the long bullet of Swiss GP-11 ammunition doesn’t interfere with the short throat. Most US made bullets reach .308 diameter much closer to the nose of the bullet." So apparently the throat is short in relation to our bullets and the OAL prescribed by the load books. Anyway it's an interesting read on the Swiss rifle and reloading for it. Since you owned one I was wondering what your opinion is. And anybody else that's reading this too! Thank you in advance!!



Super Sweet

Suz

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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:05 am    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

Just a suggestion guys, but if you have load specific data for the K-31, including the OAL data, why not post the data in the reloading data base so it is available to those that have or acquire a K-31. You might save someone a problem if they are not aware that the standard OAL is to long for the 31. You could post the admonition in the comments about the shorter OAL being critical for the 31.
Best,
Ed

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

o.k. I gave the load data to Suz like I said it was safe in my 1911. don't have any magic o.a.l. for accuracy you would probably have to figure that out yourself any way. I'll check if somebody local has a k-31 they'll let me cerro-safe cast.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

hey suze do you know how to do a max cart length in your rifle? that's important not to exceed with most bullets. the easiest way is to take a fired cartridge and squeeze it slightly out of round with your fingers (or hand it to somebody that can) just kidding, don't use any thing that will mar the brass as it will still be usable when we are done. now you should be able to insert a bullet with a little effort. insert it in the chanber just once. if you sqeezed lightly it will push the bullet back into the case and there it is. NOW if you squeezed it too hard there will be rifling marks on the bullet where it jammed the lands. measure the marks length and subtract it from the cartridges oal this is your max. either way the cartridge is useful so don't worry to bad.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

Hey Fnuser!
Actually I have a different method using a rod, some tape and a bullet. I insert the rod into the mussel end and when it touches the bolt face I mark the rod at the mussel, with tape. Then I insert a bullet into the rifling, (just enough to hold it), insert the rod again until it just touches the bullet and mark the rod again at the mussel. Then I measure between the tape markers. However I never thought of measuring the rifling marks on the bullet and subtracting, but I don't think I squished it in far enough to make marks of any length. My thinking is that this method will give you a better idea of headspace also, because you use the bolt face. I usually subtract about .005 or so from the overall measurement and sometimes I fiddle with it even more if I think it behaves badly.

Suz (of great measurements)

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: gunshow powder & primers Reply with quote

Suz, I'm also using your method but I cannot recommend it for a cartridge that headspaces on a belt or the casemouth (such as the 1911 mentioned by FNuser).
The part where you put your bullet in the barrel is always OK, but with cartridges that headspace on the mouth or a belt, I always 'load' an empty case and instead of pushing my rod (and I mean a cleaning rod! Smile ) till it touches the bolt face, I just push untill it touches the bottom of the empty shell.
Then I measure as you described and afterwards I add the thickness of the case bottom (= the difference of the outside hight minus the inside hight).

Just think and exagerate a little: suppose you have 2 cases of a 45 ACP and 1 is 1 mm longer than the other. Think what happens in the bullet-seeting-die and see where the 'bolt-face' stays when both bullets are loaded in the 1911.
(and sorry to use mm and not these very small inch-indications)
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