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44 year old dies a violent death.
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Savagenut
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

Some pics for ya: photo gallery:Firearms,bows & targets>Firearms

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Savagenut
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

ummmm forth page in there at the bottom

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Donut Slayer
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

Thanks for the pics, kinda blurry though.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

Savagenut, I was hoping you would have weighed in on the subject when you posted your pictures.
Please understand I’m not trying to be argumentative on the matter and I apologize if I was taken that way.
I don’t dispute you had a stuck firing pin but I, and it seems as others as well believe that maybe there is more to it than just the firing pin.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

Savagenut, check to see if your camera had a macro setting, usually indicated by a small flower icon... Wink

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Donut Slayer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

OK here is my $.02. I'm not trying to start trouble, but when a gun blows up, I like to find out why. Background on me is I've been in law enforcement 20 years, reloader for 30 plus years, and an armorer for law enforcement. Upon looking at the pics, it appears to me to be a classic case of over pressure. The case is ruptured in the right place for it. Looking at a pic, the case is stuck in the chamber, IE fully chambered, NOT like a ignition before the case was supported by the chamber. (you can see the rear of the chamber behind the stuck case) I just find it hard to believe just a stuck firing pin did this. Several years ago, my dept had several sig sauer P229's blow apart that looked almost identical to this one. Cause was determined to be over pressured ammo. Not from too much powder, but from bullet setback upon chambering the ammo. The feed ramp would push the bullet way back into the case causing way too high pressures. Faulty ammo was to blame. Just my $.02. (flame suit on)

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

Looks like a case stuck, tore upon extraction then the next cartridge came in behind it and slam fired O.O.B.
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Donut Slayer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

stovepipe wrote:
Looks like a case stuck, tore upon extraction then the next cartridge came in behind it and slam fired O.O.B.
If that was the case then there would be a second piece of brass behind the first in the chamber, and 2 seperated case heads.

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

Nope- the second case get blown clear, the bullet acts as a standoff. Nothing left of it as there is no support. It turns into a grenade.

I may be wrong, pics are pretty fuzy, but that's what it looks like to me.
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

I'm kinda curious about the load too. How much 800X? What bullet? Like Donut Slayer I like to try to figure out the details. This isn't about pointing fingers, its about understanding what exactly happened.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

I’m with the doughnut gobbler on this one!!!
If stovey’s was correct I think we would see a portion or piece of the case with the rear of it blown out in the unsupported area. If it did grenade there should be gouges and scratch marks somewhere. Again the pics aren’t clear but I don’t think they’re present.

6 of the 10 guns that I’ve seen destroyed were due to an over pressure situation and they had the case heads separate from the body such as what was shown here. All 6 had their ammo locked up in the chamber.
A 7th was a Berretta 40cal (it was put back together by Berretta) that the shooter had been re-loading the same cases over and over and they finally weakened enough in the unsupported area and one let go. Gee don’t the re-loading manuals warn us of this???
The other 3 were barrel obstructions.

To add to what Pumpkin said.......Read his signature line!!! Sorry Mike but once again it fits in so well!!!

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

Donut Slayer wrote:
Several years ago, my dept had several sig sauer P229's blow apart that looked almost identical to this one. Cause was determined to be over pressured ammo. Not from too much powder, but from bullet setback upon chambering the ammo. The feed ramp would push the bullet way back into the case causing way too high pressures.

You bring up an interesting point that is often over looked!!!
Whenever I'm setting a crimp this is one of the checks/test I preform. I'll cycle the same round at least 3 to 4 times and measure OAL to see if it has changed.

I have discovered the same thing with my Sig 220 and factory ammo!!!

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Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

I just crimp once and measure all my full power hand-rolled's as they come off the press.

The rest never get crimped 3-4 times so.....
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

wtf Let me re-word that for you!!!

I cycle them through the mag into the chamber by releasing the slide at least 3 to 4 times.

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Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: 44 year old dies a violent death. Reply with quote

Ah... that makes more sense.

My Colt don't "resize" my rounds. Poke
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