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700ml delay ignition
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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docholliday
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Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:14 am    Post subject: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

bought a used remington 700ml. It has a very distinct delay in the ignition. it has been converted to 209 primers. also sprays your face with a fine mist of powder when shoot. Is this normal. If not what can I do to cure the problem
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

It isnt normal. The delay ignition I think is due to either the firing pin dragging in the bolt, a weak firing pin spring or both. Disassemble the bolt and make sure there isn't alot of fouling built up in there and that the spring is strong.

As for blow back, where is it coming from? Out of the hole where the primer goes? Around the breech plug? Need more info I guess.

I have a ML700 and love the gun. I shoot it left handed which means my face is closer to the bolt area and I have no problems with blowback.


-DallanC
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docholliday
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

Let me explain a little better. The gun (when triggered) has two pops. A lite pop (primer going off) then the big boom when the powder ignites. I would guess a half second delay between the two. The mist of powder in the face comes from the first pop (primer) This is very distracting, as your eyes are sprayed with this mist, causeing you to close them (and even flinching some from the spray) just as your shot goes off. I really like this gun, but if I can't find a solution for this problem, it stays in the gun cabinet for good. I have a new steel weather cover on the gun, yet that seems to be where the mist comes from. There is no hole in the cover. There are little slots cut in the nipple. when I install the primer, you can still see daylight between the end of the primer and bottom of the nipple. Is this normal. To me that would explain the spray in the face. I really appreciate your help.
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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

It sounds like that is normal... try taking the weather shroud off and let the blow back vent upward, better yet, get another ML....from Chuck Hawks site....


...The 3-way ignition (#11 caps, musket caps, and 209 primers) breechplug comes with a 209 shotshell primer nipple installed. Unfortunately, the blow back with 209 primers is fierce, the worst I have encountered. This is due to large vents that surround the primer. And the 209 primers stick in the 700ML after virtually every shot. Included with your new Remington is a green handled primer pick, so you can pry out the spent primers.

The supplied weather shroud is a tube that fits over the end of the bolt, then ensconces the primer nipple. Currently, the Remington WebSite states "NOTE: The Model 700 ML Weather Shroud is not intended for use with 209 primers." This information has not yet filtered into the instruction manual (!), but it is good advice. Firing the rifle with the weather shroud in place directs most to the gas right into your face. If you must shoot a Remington 700ML / MLS with the weather shroud in place, the #11 cap ignition is the least painful option.

A 700 MLS was test fired for this article. With the feel of flaming sand impregnating itself into my face, this gun truly is a pain to shoot. It kicks like a mule, is decidedly muzzle heavy, and the barreled action is poorly fitted to the molded stock.

In a recent widely distributed article I suggested that the prospective muzzleloading buyer was better off looking to a true black powder company to fulfill their needs. Remington has confirmed the veracity of that suggestion. Remington has apparently left the muzzleloading business, no longer participated in NMLRA events in 2004, and has no production scheduled for their 700ML in 2005.

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

Wow that review is overly harsh IMO. I prefer my Rem700ML to any other ML I own or have shot. Used Rem's in good shape are still increasing in value and I've considered strongly picking up another one.

Anyway back to the topic at hand, hangfire's after the ignition source is triggered, are usually due to dirty flame channels through the nipple or wet / damp / oily powder that burns slowly until it hits the uncompromised powder. Verify the nipple is clear (I use welding torch cleaners to keep mine scrubbed clean) and that the barrel / nipple is clear of any moisture or oils.


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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

Just a reminder !!! Safety glasses !!! This is why you should have them !!! Shocked

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

I'm also curious as to what power you are using?

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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger wrote:
I'm also curious as to what power you are using?

I have had slight delays with some pellets in my inline but no delays with loose powder. In my side locks I can only use loose powder and have had miss fires and hang fires due to not getting powder in the bolster (my own fault). It sounds like the primer blow back is definitely a manufacturing flaw, but the hang fire could be fouling, on firing pin dragging, what do you use to clean it? Any oily residue will cause problems. I use a good solvent like Rusty Duck to clean the fouling, it works great.

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docholliday
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

Glad to be getting all this input. As for cleaners, I use Thompson/Center No.13 bore cleaner. I am using CCI primers, a newer style that I was told is hotter. I am using the Triple 7 pellets. This is the first time for me with a black powder gun, so I am not real familar with their habits or operation. If, I would decide on another muzzle loader, do you have any comments on a Savage smokeless muzzle loader. I have heard good things about them, but I also have heard good things about my 700ml
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

If you're hearing the primer pop, then a delay before the charge goes off, I'd suspect maybe some contamination of the powder. Before loading you should always fire a couple primers to make sure that there is no oil in the flash hole or breach. They need to be dry. Point the muzzle at a leaf or some grass and make sure the primer firing moves it some. That lets you know that the flash hole is clear. Check your flash hole and you can clean it with a small drill bit, BY HAND!!

There are several discussions on this site about various bullets, sabots, powders, etc. that might help you out some.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

Definitely keep the nipple clean with a nipple pick or as Dallan said a welding tip cleaning rod.

The times I have had issues with T-7 in my Knight in line was when I forgot to pop a primer to dry out the breech plug after solvent cleaning left it damp or running a spit patch and not following it with a dry patch before reloading. Blackpowder and substitutes do not like moisture.... hence the old saying Keep you powder dry!.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

It looks like you are getting good advice about your hang-fires, but I'm also concerned about the debris blowing back when the primer ignites. I don't know much about the 700ML, but I think I might want to try a new striker spring. Over the years I have run into a couple of bolt-action centerfires that would allow primers to flow back and occasionally rupture (even with factory loads) when the firing pin springs got weak. Just a thought. Good luck with your problem.

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docholliday
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

I agree with the good information part. You all have helped me a lot. The firing pin spring is pitted from the lack of cleaning from the previous owner. I am guessing it is weak, so I will see if I can find a new one. Also, I had checked the hole in the nipple and it seemed to be ok, but I found a welding tip cleaner as was recommended by you all and tried running it through the nipple. At first it would not go but with a small amout of force, it suddenly slid through and now the hole appears to be much more open. I beleive you gentlemen know you black powder guns very well.
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

Loose powder is easier to ignite than pellets !!! You also get more velocity with the loose stuff!!!

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docholliday
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: 700ml delay ignition Reply with quote

Is there a loose powder brand that is better for use or easier for cleaning than the others.
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