.444 or .45-70

stovepipe · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:25 am Post subject: .444 or .45-70

I'm really getting an itch for one of these two.

The .444 holds more, costs more....and I'm not sold on the curved stock....but it's a ripper to be sure and very tempting.

The .45-70 Guide Gun is really ringing my bell. Yeh, it's smaller, holds less....I just love the striaght stock and it's a classic caliber. It's an eye-dotter with a scope too....so, watch it!

Decisions, decisions. Smile

SwampFox · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

Tell you just as I did young fellow in a gun store; he had the same problem. I own both a 444 and a 45-70. Buy both, but if you can only buy one, buy the 45-70. The 45-70 runs 300 to 525 gr bullets while the 444 is done at 300gr.

They are both fine critter gitter cartridges and both will do the job, regardless of the critter in NA. But I just like the 45-70 better as an overall cartridge and the Marlin can handle a bit more zip than the older 45-70 guns. Just expect that a 400 or 500 gr bullet is going to have speaks with you. Very Happy

Best,
Ed

PS Both can be loaded with cast and Unique for a very plesant range experiance.

stovepipe · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

Copy on all of that.... I think we thinks alike. Very Happy

+1 on reduced loads too...

That lil Guide Gun is really tuggin' at me heart-strings. Crying or Very sad

Lil' shooter, biiig baddaBOOM. Razz

(they make xtra long slip-on recoil pads fer this, don't they? Laughing

)

SwampFox · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:45 am Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

Yep, I understand very well.

The first time I saw the Guide Gun, it was introed at the Shot Show in Orlando. I just walked over to the rack at the Marlin booth and said; "Guys this is a winner."

I am 6ft tall with large hands and can carry the rifle muzzle down, hand around wrist with fingers through the lever, and the muzzle is 4-6 inches off the ground. It is a very natural carry position for me. I do like the gun.
Best,
Ed

stovepipe · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

My mortgage is in jeapordy. Shocked

Maybe Obama will make me a loan I can't refuse! Laughing

whittling · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

I'd lean 45-70. What a gorgeous gun!!

stovepipe · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

I gotta American Rifleman from '04 w/ a write up about it....been reading it over and over every night... can't stop lookin at it.

Did I mention my mortgage could be in jeapordy? Shocked

SwampFox · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

The original or first model of the 444 Marlin (model number and cartridge) does not have a pistol grip. It is also a rifle and not a carbine. I have had my 444 since 1967 and it is a first model gun. Drawback is that it has a 1-38 twist as I recall which does not do bullets over 265gr very well. The newer guns are 1-20 twist I understand.

By the way, if you do decide to get either Marlin, go looking for an old tip off mount. They work and mine has kept its zero for 42 years now. Put a 2.5X scope in it and you have a real woods thumper. Mess up the scope and flip it off to the left side of the receiver, below the line of sight, walah you are back to open sights.
Best,
Ed

stovepipe · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

Good points, well taken.

Thanks, Ed!

Someone, hide my checkbook!

Gil Martin · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

I agree with the advice to get one of each caliber. My method was to shop the used gun racks and I got both rifles at substantial discounts. All the best...
Gil

fnuser · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

get a .358 Win

gelandangan · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

fnuser wrote:

get a .358 Win

nah.. 38-55 is better .. Very Happy

Pumpkinslinger · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

Long ago I was looking at the .444 and .45-70 Marlins. I compared whatever I could find on them in different loading manuals etc. I picked the .45-70 because it basically starts where the .444 ends, regarding bullet weights. I have a couple of Marlins now; one "regular" made in about '72-'73 and a Guide Gun. I love 'em! They handle and point well. I've shot 1.5" groups at 100 yards with both of them. Over the years I've read a number of stories about the .45-70's performance on big game, like American bison and Cape buffalo. Anything that can shoot through a buffalo should have enough "oomph" for anything I'm likely to hunt. Even my "plinking loads" are plenty for deer. With factory level loads its easy to shoot but I did put a Limbsaver recoil pad on my Guide Gun for shooting the hotter lever action loads the Marlin can use.

Arron · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

I have had this questions asked of me before by a co-worker.

He told me about the same thign as you have. I told him to go with the .45-70Gov. and the fact that you can find .45-70Gov everywhere and there are basically no .444Mar on the shelves. That right there should tell you something. He went with the ported GuideGun in .45-70Gov and to this day still sometimes says how much happier is having made the buy that was like nine years ago. Both are fine but the .45-70 has what the .444 does not, classic status. And yeah the guys that have said the Marlin can take a hot load are correct they will handle class three loads which puts it right about the down-loaded .458WM level. Not to bad in my book.

roklok · Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:58 am Post subject: Re: .444 or .45-70

Another vote for the 45-70. The .444 is a good cartridge, the 45-70 is a GREAT cartridge in my opinion. With custom loadings or handloads, the 45-70 gets pretty close to .458 WM performance. My favorite handload is pushing a 400 grain bullet to 2060 FPS from my 1895. I just shot a cinnamon black bear a couple weeks ago at about 175 yards with this rifle and load.