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308vis30/06
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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eaglesnester
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:06 pm    Post subject: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Would like to add to this subject on the performance of the 308 vs the 30/06.
As has been stated before there is not enough difference here to bother about. However the 308 does shine and this is why the 308 lives, it is a far better combat round than the 30/06. It is smaller (shorter) the weapons that fire the 308 can have smaller lighter shorter receivers. The shells take up less room, can ship more in the same freight car, ship etc. The dudes in combat can carry more ammo. It all boils down to simple logistics. Smaller, lighter, easier to ship to the end user on the battlefield.

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

This subject is a dead horse but let me see if I can't beat some flys off, if for no other reason then for discussion. {it still beats watching t.v.} It's true there is very little room between factory loaded 30-06 Springfield loaded for the mythical low serial# 1903's and 1895's and factory .308 Winchester. But volume still means velocity to a reloader. Magazine length must also be taken into account, ask anyone trying to get a 175 smk to 1000 in a .308. 30-06's USUALLY feed alot smoother from any bolt action due to the decreased feed angle. and I've rarely noticeed the shorter stroke when I'm bouncing off the bolt stop for a follow up shot on game. as for military service I don't think the .308 has quite caught up to the 30-06 in kills, and may never since the 5.56, ala .223 has been the major caliber in m-16's remember the 30-06 was used in 2 world wars and Korea and in vietnam. Ask Carlos Hathcock. the .308 is now used in some belt-fed rifles. also some others much the same way the 30-06 was in vietnam. There are som fal's still in use, but even these are outnumbered by 7.62x39's which opens up another whole can of worms. I load 165's and 168's in a 30-06 at velocities a .308 could not safely achieve with a similiar barrel length. Dude, get w the program .308 is old school! ha ha. hope you enjoy reading it as much as I did writing it.

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terry264
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Federal loads a .308 in a 180 gr. H.E. (High Energy) load that is advertised at 2740 f.p.s. The standard 30-06 loading in 180 gr. is 2700 f.p.s. Looks pretty close to me. Very Happy
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Dead horse...There will be no winners with this subject line. It has been hashed ever sense the .308 came out on every web site. And there still are no winners... wtf

By The Way....30-06 here...Browning A-bolt. Very Happy

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Handloader
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

eaglesnester wrote:
Would like to add to this subject on the performance of the 308 vs the 30/06.
As has been stated before there is not enough difference here to bother about. However the 308 does shine and this is why the 308 lives, it is a far better combat round than the 30/06. It is smaller (shorter) the weapons that fire the 308 can have smaller lighter shorter receivers. The shells take up less room, can ship more in the same freight car, ship etc. The dudes in combat can carry more ammo. It all boils down to simple logistics. Smaller, lighter, easier to ship to the end user on the battlefield.

Cheers & Tighter Groups: Eaglesnester

All of these points in favor of the .308 Win vs the .30-06 were the same ones used to favor the 5.56 vs the .308 Win. Smaller, lighter, easier to ship are the beancounter's bag. The end result is more bodybags and, given enough spilled blood and wasted youth, a revision in what is most effective. A lot of old 308s are being taken out of storage and sent to the hot zones. Lesson, military or business: listen to the front line guys, ask the lowest on the pyramid chart, get close to where the items are used and eliminate the layers seperating decision from useage.
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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

There is a lot of merit in the .308 and in most cases little to choose between the two. However, I have noticed over the years that any new .30 caliber cartridge is invariably compared to the .30-06...hmmmm.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

The KING still lives... Very Happy

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Hey Guys,

OK, as far as ballistics go the 30-06 is marginally better.

But, here is my question. In the event of a world altering experience where no one is manufacturing ammunition, what caliber will be easier to find globally.

By find, I mean scrounging through defunct military basses, and any place where ammunition was sold or stored, or manufactured on a global basis.

Not just in the USA.

So basically, I am asking which caliber is more accepted (not just for hunting) worldwide?

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
Dead horse...There will be no winners with this subject line. It has been hashed ever sense the .308 came out on every web site. And there still are no winners... wtf

By The Way....30-06 here...Browning A-bolt. Very Happy

You are right, and to each their own I say ................... Bolt Action 30-06 for me as well.

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Wicky
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

I use both, 308 with 150gn and 30-06 with - usually 180s.
As mentioned more capacity more powder therefore more velocity and especcially for those of us that reload we get to choose the powder that suits our projectile and gives use the best velocity, 30-06 wins for all bullet weights.
The 308 is my favorite for no other reason than I carried an SLR for a few years.
Bolt throw means nothing, in my opinion, I have no trouble with my 375 H&H and it is longer than both!
It is all personal opinion and likes, both are excelent rounds and one will do a bit more than the other.
With regards to the Federal ammo, they use a powder, or blend, not available to handloaders and they can make the 30-06 faster than it's standard velocity also - the '06 is still ahead.

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Wicky wrote:
I use both, 308 with 150gn and 30-06 with - usually 180s.
As mentioned more capacity more powder therefore more velocity and especcially for those of us that reload we get to choose the powder that suits our projectile and gives use the best velocity, 30-06 wins for all bullet weights.
The 308 is my favorite for no other reason than I carried an SLR for a few years.
Bolt throw means nothing, in my opinion, I have no trouble with my 375 H&H and it is longer than both!
It is all personal opinion and likes, both are excelent rounds and one will do a bit more than the other.
With regards to the Federal ammo, they use a powder, or blend, not available to handloaders and they can make the 30-06 faster than it's standard velocity also - the '06 is still ahead.

I agree Wicky, anything a reloader can do with a 308 can also be done with a 30-06 using the right powders, and like you said, the old '06 has a bit more powder capacity than the .308 and the '06 shines over the 308 especially when it comes to heavier bullets. It's been said that the 30-06 will do most anything better then the .308 just as the 300 win mag will do most anything a better then the '06. So if you want 30-06 velocities etc don't buy a .308 and try to make it a 30-06 and if you want a 300 win mag don't buy a 30-06. Plain and simple, no rocket science involved. That's the beauty of it............... we have lots of calibers to choose from which means we can fill our gun cabinets etc to overflowing in order to get one of everything. Further more there aren't any bad calibers I can think of, it's just that you need to use the right tool for the right job.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

lesterg3 wrote:
Hey Guys,

OK, as far as ballistics go the 30-06 is marginally better.

But, here is my question. In the event of a world altering experience where no one is manufacturing ammunition, what caliber will be easier to find globally.

By find, I mean scrounging through defunct military basses, and any place where ammunition was sold or stored, or manufactured on a global basis.

Not just in the USA.

So basically, I am asking which caliber is more accepted (not just for hunting) worldwide?

Actually, neither the .308 or 30-06 fits that bill. Thanks to the "generosity" of the former Soviet states and the "humanitarian efforts" of China in arming every quasi-military group and third world country, I'm pretty sure the 7.62X39mm would take that prize.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

When I had the choice between a .308 and a .30-06... I picked the .280 Rem! (Just to muddy the water a little more) Wink

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

OK,

I am getting a little confused. Confused

I believe that the sporting .308 will accept the 7.62 NATO cartridge, but that a 7.62 rifle should not be used to fire a .308 cartridge.

Meaning that the 7.62 has a lower PSI than maximum for the .308, but military rifles are only manufactured for the PSI of the 7.62.

What is the difference between the NATO 7.62x39 and the NATO 7.62x51?

So, after the apocalypse, when I am scrounging for cartridges I can use the 7.62x51 NATO round in my Savage 12, but what about the 7.62x39 NATO round, again what's the difference?

Logically, I expect that it is the length of the projectile? Where can I find data about the 51 versus the 39? Confused

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

The .308 Winchester and 7.62x51mm NATO are interchangable, keeping in mind that military cases may have thicker brass/less capacity. The Russian 7.62x39mm is a totally different cartridge, case is 12mm shorter. The American round uses 0.308" diameter bullets while the Russian round generally uses 0.310" bullets (I know the Mini-30 7.62X39s were using .308" bores). The American and Russian cartridges are not at all interchangable.

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