HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: pliers
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 1
Overall: 12490

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 50
BOT: 4
Total: 54
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: PointBlank Online
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Home
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Your Account
40: News
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums
02: Home
03: Forums
04: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 304
 Pictures: 2342
  · Views: 306268
  · Votes: 1302
  · Comments: 85
 

Support our Advertisers

22-k hornet cast load help
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Glenn1022
Member
Member


Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 45
Location: NC Foothills

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Has anyone here had experience with loading cast bullets for the 22 hornet or 22-k hornet?
I shoot the 22-k Hornet in a Contender 23" barrel 1 in 12 twist. I have worked up several nice jacketed loads but my cast loads for the hornet have had mixed results. Right now I have the Lyman 225438 mold 45.3gr with gas check.
Wheel weights with 50/50 tin. I do not have access to Linotype lead and do not have the option to buy any at this time. Money, wife and reloading don’t mix well :/
Pressure and my cast bullets are a problem when trying for higher velocities. 6 to 7 gr of 4227 will give me 2” groups at 50 yds @ 1723 fps. Going 7.2 gr and up and my groups open up to 6” +. This was with heat treated bullets at 465 degrees for 1 hour in oven and cooled with cold water. Allowed to harden for 72 hours. It seems that I reached pressure limits with IMR 4227 with that type bullet.
Red Dot gives me inconsistent velocities and groups. I have loaded up a few rounds with Unique but have not has time yet to test those loads. I have also loaded a few cast rounds with Lil’Gun but have yet to test those yet. Hope to later this week. Has anyone tried Lil’Gun with reduced loads? 6gr and up? The low pressures that Lil’Gun is supposed to produce seems like it would be Ideal for cast loads. I read somewhere on the net, that Lil’Gun does not do well with reduced loads but I can’t find that info anywhere again.
I have cast for 357 and 45 caliber for years without any problems but this small bullet is a tough nut to crack.
I cast around 500 bullets in a session and culled nearly 350. I then culled another 50 or so due to weight. So that leaves me with about 100 rounds at +/- .1 gr.
Frustrating at times but I enjoy the process.
Sprue plate holes seem a bit large for this small bullet and getting consistent bases to my bullets is hit and miss.
Powders I have on hand are Red Dot (used to fire form my cases mostly) Unique, IMR-4227 and Lil'Gun.
The Main reason I got the 22-k Hornet was so that I could cast bullets for it. Cheaper to load and popping something....paper to small game with bullets you make is very satisfying.
I want to shoot squirrels up to coyote. Lower velocity for squirrels....1200 to 1500 fps. Want to go up to 2000+ for larger game out to 200yd.
Any insight or suggestions for different powders, casting or loads would be helpful.
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3451
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Glenn1022, Welcome to Hunting Nut !!!

I don't do any casting of my own so I know very little about it.
The only thing I can think of is, are you sizing the bullets to the right diameter for your gun ?

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Glenn1022
Member
Member


Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 45
Location: NC Foothills

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Yes, I slugged the gun and it came out at .224. Bullets are casting at that size. I wish I could get them to cast larger so that I might try shooting slightly over sized.
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13167
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Glenn1022...welcome mate...grab a beer and pull up a stump.

I note that you are heat treating your cast bullets...is this before or after you size and crimp the GC? Sizing after hardening sorta defeats the purpose of hardening. Are you using the correct Sizing Die? When you run your bullets through said die, do they size evenly and concentrically? Are you using the same lube you always have? Sometimes the lube can have a detrimental effect on accuracy.

Measure the bullet before sizing...is it casting to the correct size. Have a look at your alloy...a dodgy alloy can cast up odd size bullets. I buy an alloy for casting bullets that is very close to Lyman #2 and it is great. Do you flux your alloy regularly as you are casting? If you don't then this also can create problems with your alloy mix...it will not necessarily be consistent. Try crimping on your gas check without sizing your bullet, load and see how they group...you might get a surprise...I did.

When I am casting, I drop my bullets (via a funnel) straight from the mould into water to cool them quickly and harden them a little.

Good luck mate...casting offers as many frustrations and joys as reloading. Its great.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Glenn1022
Member
Member


Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 45
Location: NC Foothills

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

I have not changed bullet lube yet. I am using a rather old formula at the moment but I am looking at changing that. I want to be able to make my own without buying it....we will see how that goes before I try buying lube. I have a 5 gallon barrel full of Lube that is nearly 30 years old that I have doctored with paraffin and bees wax for my hornet loads. It works great in my 357 and 45 cast loads at speeds up to 1600 fps in the 357. I have liked this concoction because it reduced leading down to nothing. It’s a make or break moment but I may buy some for comparison to see if I get any improvement.
I size and crimp gas check before heat treating. I have also tried the water drop but was defeating the purpose of that once I ran it through the sizing die.
I will have to buy a larger sizing die so that I can crimp without sizing. I will give that a try as soon as I can get one.
I have changed out my alloy with different batches of WW and add in the tin amount needed. As of this moment, I cannot buy better alloy. I might have to suffer thru that point till I can get the money to purchase some known type lead such as linotype.
Never thought about the bullet lube as a problem…thanks for the info. That defiantly warrants a little investigation that I can handle at the moment. It may be a little too soft for the higher speeds. I will try stiffening it up a little.
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13167
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Glenn...I make my own lube...a mixture of pure beeswax and automatic transmission fluid (ATF). I can't remember the exact percentages, but basically I heat the beeswax to around 100 degrees then add small quantities of ATF, scoop out a little and let it set, then rub it between my fingers to check the consistency. I want it soft...not sticky or too hard. Using the ATF keeps the waxy feel to the lube without being greasy like Vaseline. It comes out a nice pink colour and works well for me....and its cheap. I put it through a RCBS Lube Sizer.

Check this site out:

Bullet Lube

The alloy I buy is mixed to exacting percentages and it is great. Wheel weights can be a mix of just about anything. I also have pure linotype here...I used to mix it 50/50 with lead.... but its better to buy the proper alloy...and they give me a certificate showing the exact percentages of lead, tin and antimony. Every bullet I cast is exactly the same alloy.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Glenn1022
Member
Member


Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 45
Location: NC Foothills

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

It so happens that I ordered 2lb of beeswax and it came in yesterday. I will try it out tonight.
I never thought of using ATF. Maybe I can get a few loaded up with that mixture and try it this weekend.
Any particular brand of ATF?

Thanks for the info!
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13167
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Doesn't matter what brand..or grade...ATF is ATF.

The way I crimp on a GC without sizing the complete bullet was to simply push the bullet only far enough into the sizing die to squeeze the GC on then bought it back out. I would then apply lube by hand, or you can use spray ALOX.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Glenn1022
Member
Member


Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 45
Location: NC Foothills

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Made a small batch of the lube you suggested. Harder than I am used to. It is a little tacky but if I got rid off all the tacky feel then it became too hard. Took me 2 hours to clean out old lube in my Lyman sizer. But I made up 50 bullets to load up tomorrow for Saturdays test rounds. It is a nice color pink as you said. Cant wait to give it a try Very Happy

Thank you for your time in helping me out. I will let you know how it goes.
I have around 60 rounds loaded with my old lube and I will test it against the new lube I made tonight and fill you in with the details.

Dang....its almost 2am...better hit the sack....5:30 is early. Another long day at work tomorrow... Crying or Very sad
Back to top
View user's profile
A17Shooter
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 323
Location: California Foothills (Gold Country)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

glenn,

Good luck with casting 22 bullets. The best caster i've known gave up on the 22's. The tips I remember :

Keep the mix a little hotter than normal and cast fast to keep the mold at the proper temp. This will help the cavities fill properly.

I've always considered 1700 fps as the speed limit for bullets cast with #2 alloy. If you want to run rifle velocities, try silver bullets. Smile Just mix silver solder 10 : 1 with the #2 alloy.

22 molds seem to be hard for the companies to make properly. check bullets carefully for concentric shapes. Trying to make out of round bullets shoot well is like Pi$$ing into the wind.

Good luck and keep us posted.

_________________
_________________
A17Shooter
Back to top
View user's profile
Glenn1022
Member
Member


Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 45
Location: NC Foothills

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Quote::
22 molds seem to be hard for the companies to make properly. check bullets carefully for concentric shapes. Trying to make out of round bullets shoot well is like Pi$$ing into the wind.

I noticed when I checked the bullets for size that some of them were .0005 smaller on one side...thought it was my casting.
I have a double cavity mold. I will try seperating bullets by mold cavity to see if both are comming out the same. If not..maybe I can send it back to get a replacement if it is a problem.
Thx for the tip.
I posted on my last test shoot with Lil'Gun and Unique Saterday. Had rather good results with a change of lube on the advice from Vince. Lil'Gun really did well on my cast loads between 7.5gr and 8gr. Got my hopes up that I wil be able to get consistant .5" groups at 50 yds. Time will tell.
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13167
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

That's great to hear Glenn. Experiment a little with the mix in the lube and keep a check on your barrel for leading mate.

Never tried casting .22 cal bullets. I can't imagine that the mould manufacturers would find it any more difficult making a .224 mould than a .308 mould....its only a cherrie cutter between two blocks of metal.

Have a look at this link. Its a mould manufacturer here in Australia. He makes his moulds out of brass and they are very good quality. I had one for .357 and it was brilliant.

Cast Bullet Engineering

Also, check out this Forum....good info there.

Cast Boolits

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
sendin
Rookie Member
Rookie Member


Joined: Aug 19, 2008
Posts: 23
Location: Sebastopol, CA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

A17 let me know about this discussion recently on another forum.

Thank you A-17

I am new here and have Savage Mod 40 22 Hornet and will be reloading for this rifle. Also considering casting for this using the same mold mentioned above. So the info here is very helpful to me and I wanted to pass along a thank you and also post these two links which I found helpful -

www.leverguns.com/arti...hornet.htm

and

www.lasc.us/IndexBrennan.htm

Thanks again - Denny from Sebastopol, CA

_________________
Molon Labe!
Back to top
View user's profile
Glenn1022
Member
Member


Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 45
Location: NC Foothills

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Sendin,
I have a couple other post on this forum with cast load test.
One topic was reduced Lil'Gun for cast bullets. I will post additional info later this weekend when I test my next batch with Lil'Gun and Unique.
These are the only two powders I have found so far that like my gun with cast bullets. Before fire forming my hornet brass, red dot did well up to 3.4gr. Once fireformed, I could not get it to shoot well. Cant figure that one out.

Welcome to the forums Smile
Back to top
View user's profile
sendin
Rookie Member
Rookie Member


Joined: Aug 19, 2008
Posts: 23
Location: Sebastopol, CA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Thanks Glenn -

I think I read the other posts too. When I got my dies I also got some Lil Gun. I have some other powder that might be suitable from my reading, but I think I will start with Lil Gun.

What I am most curious about is my ability to get the right lead mix as I have and have access to a lot of lead, mostly pure, 35+ lbs, and probably 25 lbs of WW lead. I have a suspicion that I may be able to come up with a good enough mix by adding enough Linotype or Monotype to get enough antimony to make them hard, but I have been repeatedly warned that starting out with a known mix like Linotype is the way to go and I am sure they are correct, but I hate to see all that lead unused.

Did you use the Linotype or did you make your own mix? Did you do any kind of hardness test on yours?

You may have already answered this and I apologize if you already did.

Thanks - Denny

_________________
Molon Labe!
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.