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Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute
Hunting and discussion with Muzzle Loaders, Archery and other Primitive weapons
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:48 am    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

The formula is, by weight:
75% saltpetre (Potasium Nitrate)
15% Charcoal
10% Sulfur

The recipe can be modified to 74,16,10 to duplicate 19th century black powder military specs.
The hard part is getting it to mix well without ruining it. I have seen it ground in a mortar and pestle with water, which does a good job of blending but it takes some of the nitrates out because they mix so readily with water. I used denatured alcohol and got a decent mix but it dries out too fast to get grain sizes uniform. You have to work it wet or it can ignite.
I can get the chemicals here in the drugstore:
Salt Petre is sold in small containers
"Flowers of Sulfur" are sold and it is just powdered sulfur
You can use charcoal from almost anywhere but don't use the "quick" or "Easy" lighting stuff for your BBQ because it has some potasium Nitrate in it already and it messes up the mix.
It is very dificult to make in large batches and it is never very consistant in small batches. You just can't win!
BTW, the first gun I ever made was a muzzle loaded "match-lock" pistol that I made my own powder for... at fifteen paces I hit a gallon jug full of water. What a mess! The gun survived for a few days and i lost interest in it.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

Gidday Paul. I remember reading somewhere that in days gone by it was common to use urine from women to mix with the powder to make it into cakes for later pulverising or granulating.

Might be a bit of a challenge to get the missus to provide the "mixer" these days though.

Cheers, Vince

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

Bushy, now my Encore loads from the front end...

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parkerbill
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
Can Black horn be used in a "real" smoke pole? You know...The ones that have to be stoked from the front end...

I imagine it can be, at least in one with a "modern" steel barrel (it's a more intense powder), as long as it uses 209 primers. I believe I read that 209s are needed to get it going, but I could be wrong.

You might want to read the two reviews I provided links to above; I think they may better answer your question.

As to what a ""real" smoke pole" is, I'd say any front-stuffer that can reliably and cleanly take the game animal it is being used to hunt as humanely as possible. I really did not start this thread to debate what constitues a "real smoke pole", but my normal response is, I guess it is up to each individual to determine at what point in the historic development of firearms "real" or "primitive" goes away, at least to them. I take it you are using a matchlocked smoothbore blunderbuss??? Very Happy Very Happy
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:07 am    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

Vince,
The urine was collected to make the saltpetre. The stronger the better.
I would rather buy it. (saltpetre not the urine) It is hard enough to make consistant batches when using laboratory grade chemicals. I can't imagine using home brewed chemicals and getting consistant results.

Most of the BP substitutes are for in-line ignitions using the shotgun primers because they won't ignite reliably with caps or flint.
I wonder if you could use a BP "primer charge" and the substitutes on top of it.
LOOK MA! duplex BP loads! . . . . . . . . . oops!

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

Parkerbill...Naw...Nothing so fancy. Just a T/C .50 cal. Hawken cap lock. And I didn't mean to hi-jack the thread. Black powder is just getting too hard to find these days and will probably be needing a good replacment powder.

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joda23
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

I love it over the triple7 in that i have no crud ring and it burns alot cleaner. You also have to use a standard 209 primer because Black horn needs a hotter flame
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

joda23 wrote:
You also have to use a standard 209 primer because Black horn needs a hotter flame

Isn't there a potential problem with standard primers having enough power to move the projectile down the barrel before the powder ignites with the results being degraded accuracy?
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vint2
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

Here is a link that you can check out for an adaptor for your caploaks!!
www.warrencustomoutdoo...spark.html I used one of these years ago with rifle primers on my TC Hawken. They now have them for shotgun primers and 209 powder!!

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joda23
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:13 am    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

Here is a few articles on it but for the most part this powder was made for modern inline muzzleloaders.

www.hpmuzzleloading.co...LHome.html

www.hpmuzzleloading.co...port2.html

www.hpmuzzleloading.co...tics2.html

www.chuckhawks.com/bla...elease.htm
This one is on 209 primers:
www.hpmuzzleloading.co...ical3.html
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WyoHunter
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

Great BP substitute! Google search "muzzleloader forums". Lots of info available on those forums.

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joda23
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

I can get about 20 shots between cleaning and no water in the barrel.
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

vint2 wrote:
Here is a link that you can check out for an adaptor for your caploaks!!
www.warrencustomoutdoo...spark.html I used one of these years ago with rifle primers on my TC Hawken. They now have them for shotgun primers and 209 powder!!

Thanks for the link, I'm going to order some 209 and try it out. I also have a t/c 50 hawken like Bushy does.

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vint2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

Glad to help! My son has my TC Hawken and I have gone inline. I get can get 45-50 shots using 209, with no cleaning between shots and no loss of accuracy. I use a 50 cal bore snake, then swab the barrel with bore cleaner and with 5-6 patches the bore is clean!! NO WATER!! Do not use water with 209 or you will have an unholy mess. Just use your favorite powder solvent that you use to clean your other guns.
HAPPY SHOOTING AND GOOD HUNTING!!!! ANY QUESTIONS JUST HOLLER!!!

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Ominivision1
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Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Blackpowder Substitute Reply with quote

Just ordered 2 10oz containers and will take a while to get here because it's on backorder. I had a good talk with the gunsmith and he told me a lot of states are banning the use of BH209 because it is a smokeless powder. He rattled off a bunch of states including my old stomping grounds, Wisconsin. Anyway, check with your local DNR before ordering the powder to make sure it's legal in your state.

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