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seating depths
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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foreign
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

hi vince im in christchurch most of the time unless its holidays. then im 70 north at my olds loading and shooting.hahah
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foreign
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:04 am    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

hey cheers sniper. might try that though i have a funny feeling that i have an extreamly long throat on this gun.
i tried a method i divised where i closed the bolt and inserted a dowl down the barrel till it touched (missing the extractor pin). marked dowl.i then put a projectile into the breach and allowed it to sit on the lands by faceing the gun down, thn inserted the dowl and marked again. this gave me the same length as the marker pen method. resulting in the projectile being just in the case. just seating to the cannula and then going to fidle a little later.
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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

Foreign,

It's a Remington 700 and they are notorious for a long throat. In your case (pun there) seat the bullet for good function through the mag box and go from there...

The generic rule of thumb is to seat at least one bullet diameter worth of bullet length into the case..IOW, seat a .270 win bullet at least .277 worth of depth from the base of the bullet for proper neck tension.

I've proved to myself that freebore isn't that big of a deal when loading with quality dies.

OCW negates a lot of that Voodoo.............
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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
What brand is your Micro Seater Die wildswalker?

I have used a similar process to you, but don't have the MS Die...I simply measure the length of the seating rod poking out the top of the die. Not the most accurate, but it works.

Cheers, Vinxce

Have used RCBS, Forster, and Redding...can't say any of them are any better than the others, but I've used Forster the most.

Well worth money IMHO...

The .243AI Micro Seater die I have coming from Graf's for my latest build is a Redding and I do fear that none...........
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sniper
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

foreign wrote:
hey cheers sniper. might try that though i have a funny feeling that i have an extreamly long throat on this gun.

Foreign:
Long throat, huh? WEll, wear a roll neck in the winter, and don't crawl the stock! Laughing
I used your method before I got into comparators & such, and it did well. But, in the True Spirit of Never Leaving Well Enough Alone, I had to try other, "more precise" methods. Why do we DO that to ourselves? wtf

I find that cheap and simple is probably the best for me. Particularly simple. Enjoy: It IS a Fine and Pleasant Madness! Very Happy

I haven't noticed youur handle before, so Welcome! Smile
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

I have one rifle in 3006 with a throat so deep that a 180 grain bullet cannot be seated properly and still touch the lands. I gave up on trying to get my 165 grain bullets anywhere near them and use the published OAL as loaded in the books. I adjust the powder charge to get my accuracy and always shoot around 1/2 MOA.
You only have to get the bullet out of the case more to get accuracy with a larger powder charge (in my opinion).

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foreign
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

thanks paul. yea im just going to seat them at the madazine length then slowly move back and see what happens
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foreign
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:44 am    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

so wildswalker if the bullet is boat tailed then do u start from where the bullet becomes the bvarrel diameter or from the base of the bullet. this makes a huge difference in seating depth. ??????
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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

Boattail or flat base makes no difference on seating depth, nor enters the equation.

Mag Box confines generally rule the outcome...

Kissin' lands is an option if there's room...............

Short for weight bullets need be seated at least 1 bullet diameter worth, for neck tension.

With good dies there's no fear of Free Bore.............
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

Obviously, if you're concerned about the contact between the inside of the case neck and the bullet, the shape of the base of the bullet makes a big difference. If I seat a flat based 7mm bullet one diameter deep I have 0.284" of contact. If I seat a 7mm Speer boat tail one diameter deep I have about 0.114" of contact (only 40% as much).

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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

One diameter of bullet worth of contact is what it is....

Counting the boattail portion as "contact" is something only an Expert like you would try to do.

Mag Box confines negate much in that regard, but you'd need to shoot and reload a little to know that.

Is Foreign driving a single shot not requiring a skookum feed, or not....?
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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

foreign wrote:
so wildswalker if the bullet is boat tailed then do u start from where the bullet becomes the bvarrel diameter or from the base of the bullet. this makes a huge difference in seating depth. ??????

Wilds - If you had answered foreign's question the first time you would not have to be so snotty now.. I do not disagree with what you have to say, just how you say it.

Keep repeating the same thing over and over and it will eventually sound like something new to add to the discussion. Confused


Foreign....BTW- The crimped ring around a bullet is a cannelure not a canula.

A canula is a flexible tube which when inserted into the body is used either to withdraw fluid or insert medication.

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

Everybody take a deep breath and count to 10... Smile

Alot of people go with the bullet diameter, as a seating depth. But it doesnt have to be precise. Really what you are trying to achieve by altering seating depths is increased accuracy. You do however, want your bullets to stay in the cases and not vibrate out. Some of my most accurate .22-250 loads are only seated less than 1/16" into the case. That is pretty much finger tight! They would be totally unsuited for walking / riding type hunting, but they are fine off a bench where I load'em 1 at a time into my Rugar #1.

For in field hunting loads in other calibers, I seat a dummy round to get an idea of COL for the bullet I'm working with, then I measure the magazine box to see the max length there, then I make a determination to see if seating to the max of the box, is enough to hold the bullet tight.

In 1 of my rifles, a Win M70, just to clear the magazine box, I'm over an inch off the lands! It alarmed me at first... but then I realized "hey, Weatherby builds that much freebore into some of their rifles". I'm still trying to find a handload that shoots as good as the crappy cheap green Remington ammo (sub .75") ... or even as good as their Safari grade ammo (sub 1.1").

Bottom line with seating, the bullet only needs to be seated deep enough to be held secure for your use, "use" being subjective and up to the user. I dont recommend anyone seat as shallow as my .22-250... I do it because I get those lovely ragged 1 hole groups but I have to be extremely careful with transportation and handling of the round so I dont dislodge a bullet Very Happy


-DallanC
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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

Both Wildswalker and Dallan have provided good information.

As Dallan says, you should seat you bullet deep enough for its intended purpose. A very shallow seated bullet may slip out or move as you carry your rifle through the bush, whereas this may not be an issue at the range.

What Wildswalker says about the magazine size is totally correct. If you are shooting a bolt action and loading from a magazine, then the total length of your round will be governed by the internal dimensions of the magazine, regardless of the style of bullet used.

If you are using a single shot, or not using a magazine, then your should have at least one calibre's length of the bearing surface of the bullet seated inside the neck of the case. In other words...for a .308 you should have .308" of the bullet bearing surface seated in the neck of the case...for a .243 you should have 6mm of the bullet bearing surface seated in the neck of the case etc etc etc.

As Wildswalker says, the shape of the projectile is not an issue because a boat-tail section is not part of the bearing surface of the projectile and will not touch the neck of the case. Consequently, it will not provide any grip and as such is not included in the measurement. The length of a boat-tail projectile seated in the neck will be measured from that point on the bullet where it starts to slim down to form the boat tail. For a flat base projectile it will measure from the flat base.

All of this is moot, if you load your rounds to the manufacturers intended overall length, because rifle manufacturers use this dimension when designing the magazine for a particular calibre. Once you have this measurement you can then start fine tuning your seating depth whilst remembering those two all important measurements...

#1 The round must fit in the magazine and feed reliably, and

#2 Your bullet must be seated deep enough for its intended purpose, or SHOULD have at least one calibre's length of the bearing surface of the bullet seated in the neck of the case for reliable grip.

Cheers, Vince

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: seating depths Reply with quote

Also be aware that heavy recoil rifles such as the magnums can also dislodge a loose bullet in a magazine!


-DallanC
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