HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 479
BOT: 1
Total: 480
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: News
02: Photo Albums
03: Forums
04: Home
05: Forums
06: Home
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Home
11: Your Account
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Your Account
17: Forums
18: Your Account
19: Forums
20: Home
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Your Account
24: Your Account
25: Your Account
26: Forums
27: Home
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Home
32: Forums
33: Your Account
34: Home
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Photo Albums
40: Your Account
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Home
45: Home
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Photo Albums
49: Photo Albums
50: Home
51: Your Account
52: Home
53: Forums
54: Photo Albums
55: Forums
56: Home
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Your Account
62: Forums
63: Home
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Home
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: News
77: Photo Albums
78: Your Account
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Home
82: Your Account
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Your Account
88: Forums
89: Photo Albums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Photo Albums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Your Account
103: Your Account
104: Your Account
105: Home
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Your Account
111: Home
112: Photo Albums
113: Your Account
114: Home
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Photo Albums
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Home
121: Photo Albums
122: Photo Albums
123: Forums
124: Photo Albums
125: Home
126: Forums
127: Home
128: Your Account
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Your Account
134: Forums
135: Your Account
136: Home
137: Your Account
138: Your Account
139: Home
140: Forums
141: Photo Albums
142: Photo Albums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Your Account
149: Forums
150: Your Account
151: Forums
152: Your Account
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Photo Albums
167: Forums
168: Forums
169: Forums
170: Forums
171: Photo Albums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Home
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Photo Albums
180: Forums
181: Home
182: Your Account
183: Articles: Topics
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: Your Account
189: Home
190: Forums
191: Statistics
192: Photo Albums
193: Home
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Forums
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Photo Albums
203: Your Account
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Home
207: Photo Albums
208: Photo Albums
209: Forums
210: Home
211: Home
212: Photo Albums
213: Forums
214: Forums
215: Home
216: Photo Albums
217: Your Account
218: Home
219: Your Account
220: Your Account
221: Photo Albums
222: Home
223: Forums
224: Forums
225: Forums
226: Your Account
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Photo Albums
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Home
233: Statistics
234: Your Account
235: Your Account
236: Forums
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Photo Albums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Forums
243: Home
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Forums
247: Forums
248: Forums
249: Forums
250: Forums
251: Forums
252: Your Account
253: Forums
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Your Account
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Your Account
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Your Account
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Home
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Home
273: Forums
274: Your Account
275: Forums
276: Forums
277: Home
278: Forums
279: Forums
280: Home
281: Home
282: Home
283: Statistics
284: Forums
285: Home
286: Photo Albums
287: Forums
288: Forums
289: Forums
290: Home
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Forums
294: Your Account
295: Forums
296: Forums
297: Your Account
298: Home
299: Your Account
300: Your Account
301: Forums
302: Your Account
303: Your Account
304: Forums
305: Forums
306: Photo Albums
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Forums
310: Forums
311: Forums
312: Forums
313: Forums
314: Home
315: Forums
316: Forums
317: Photo Albums
318: Your Account
319: Forums
320: Forums
321: Your Account
322: Photo Albums
323: Forums
324: Forums
325: Home
326: Forums
327: Home
328: Forums
329: Forums
330: Forums
331: Forums
332: Forums
333: Forums
334: Your Account
335: Forums
336: Forums
337: Forums
338: Home
339: Your Account
340: Forums
341: Photo Albums
342: Photo Albums
343: Forums
344: Forums
345: Forums
346: Home
347: Photo Albums
348: Photo Albums
349: Home
350: Photo Albums
351: Your Account
352: Forums
353: Your Account
354: Forums
355: Photo Albums
356: Photo Albums
357: Forums
358: Forums
359: Forums
360: Forums
361: Photo Albums
362: Photo Albums
363: Forums
364: Home
365: Forums
366: Forums
367: Home
368: Your Account
369: Forums
370: Forums
371: Your Account
372: Forums
373: Forums
374: Forums
375: Home
376: Forums
377: Photo Albums
378: Forums
379: Forums
380: Forums
381: Forums
382: Forums
383: Home
384: Forums
385: Forums
386: Forums
387: Photo Albums
388: Forums
389: Photo Albums
390: Forums
391: Forums
392: Home
393: Home
394: Your Account
395: Forums
396: Photo Albums
397: Forums
398: Forums
399: Forums
400: Photo Albums
401: Forums
402: Your Account
403: Forums
404: Forums
405: Forums
406: Forums
407: Forums
408: Forums
409: Your Account
410: Forums
411: Forums
412: Forums
413: Home
414: Forums
415: Forums
416: Photo Albums
417: Forums
418: News
419: Your Account
420: Forums
421: Your Account
422: Forums
423: Your Account
424: Your Account
425: Forums
426: Home
427: Forums
428: Forums
429: Forums
430: Forums
431: Forums
432: Forums
433: Your Account
434: Forums
435: Forums
436: Forums
437: Forums
438: Forums
439: Your Account
440: Forums
441: Forums
442: Forums
443: Forums
444: Home
445: Forums
446: Forums
447: Forums
448: Forums
449: Forums
450: Forums
451: Your Account
452: Forums
453: Forums
454: Home
455: Forums
456: Your Account
457: Photo Albums
458: Photo Albums
459: Your Account
460: Forums
461: Forums
462: Forums
463: Forums
464: Forums
465: Forums
466: Forums
467: Home
468: Your Account
469: Forums
470: Home
471: Home
472: Home
473: Home
474: Forums
475: Forums
476: Forums
477: Forums
478: Forums
479: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

muzzle jump
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: muzzle jump Reply with quote

I've been working with a lightweight gun with heavy bullets and a Weatherby mag. Both guns have proven their abilities over the years. What I have noticed is shot strings with alot of vertical. Sometimes pushing the 2 inch mark. I have tracked this problem down to inconsistent muzzle jump. I'm using a traditional tripod rest and rear bag [rabbit ear style] setup.


So my question is, How does evryone else deal with a gun that wants to jump off the front rest?
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
guncollector
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: muzzle jump Reply with quote

if you were shooting offhand or even prone, i have always been told that vertical stringing indicates a problem with breath control. i don't think that is possible with bench rest unless your rests are a bit loose.

one possibility is inconsistent placement of the firearm on the rests - front rest in particular. if the rest is not touching the same part of the forearm for every shot, the POI can vary vertically. Be especially careful not rest the sling swivel on your front rest. I have made that mistake a time or two.

i believe that most, if not all, of the muzzle jump occurs after the bullet leaves the barrel. In fact, the jump along with some of the recoil is the reaction to the bullet leaving the barrel. i don't think the initial explosion of gunpowder way back in the chamber exerts upward force on the muzzle as much as it exerts rearward force on the bolt and, of course, an equal amount of force on the base of the bullet.

_________________
If the Government doesn't trust us with our guns, why should we trust them with theirs?
Back to top
View user's profile
FALPhil
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Posts: 377
Location: Dixie

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: muzzle jump Reply with quote

I have not done the research myself, but I have been told by competitive shooters that lightweight barrels are not consistent when it comes to muzzle whip. There is one load per combination of reloading components that gives you the best group, and when you change one of the components, you get unpredictable results. After all, taming muzzle whip was the whole idea behind the USRAC B.O.S.S. system. It's all in the harmonics.

I do have experience with B.O.S.S. and it works pretty darned good.

_________________
The Wicked Witch of the West is alive and well and serving as the Speaker of the House.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: muzzle jump Reply with quote

FALPhil
My concern here is about a gun jumping off the front rest under recoil.
I'm vary aware of muzzle whip and the harmonics in regaurds to barrels. You are right about small changes affecting your results. This paticular gun gave me lots of trouble until I started using a chronograph. It's accuracy comes and goes with 0.5gr changes.
Lightweight barrels tend to be less consistent like you stated but, thats not always true either. Alot of it depends on who is doing the work and how good a barrel is to start with.


guncollector
I do pay attention to the placement of the stock and studs on the rest for the reasons you've stated.
Highspeed photos I've seen with and without porting/muzzle brakes leads me to belive you can influence the bullet in the barrel. Although like you I also belive the bullet is out of the barrel befor the muzzle reaches its peak rise
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: muzzle jump Reply with quote

Hm, this is an interesting one. I'll be following it with keen interest.

Another chance for me to learn something. Woo Hoo

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
FALPhil
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Posts: 377
Location: Dixie

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: muzzle jump Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:
FALPhil
My concern here is about a gun jumping off the front rest under recoil.

My bad. Sorry. Embarassed

The only time I have experienced what you are describing is when I have not had a lot of padding under the forearm and when shooting autoloading milsurps with lots of recoiling mass in the mechanism. I use a sandbag in my front rest that holds about 3.5 - 4 pounds of sand. It absorbs quite a bit of vibration. What are you using in your front rest? Have you tried anything like a Lead Sled?
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Deleted_User_2665
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 06, 2006
Posts: 380

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: muzzle jump Reply with quote

Anything "weatherby magnum" is going to jump on a sand bag...regardless of barrel contour.

Felt recoil and barrel vibrations are two different animals, recoil affects "shootability" and barrel vibes affect "accuracy".

Barrel vibes are caused by the initial rapid burning of the powder charge, known to some as the "explosion" contained within the cartridge case........several series of barrel vibes occur before any recoil is at all felt.

Recoil occurs for the same reason the sound of the shot is heard.....all that gas pressure and bullet escaping out the end of a very small tube, though the actual sound is the result of the bullet breaking the sound barrier. "A jet effect" for lack of a better term, is recoil.

A Heavy Hitter bagged on the front just forward of the front action screw will lessen much muzzle jump at the bench.

With bipods, a full backpack supporting the entire underbelly of the rifle will reduce felt recoil from the prone position greatly. Very little muzzle jump as well.

Personally, I NEVER sight in from the bench to hunt. I set turrets from the prone position over a pack with or without bipods, and then confirm other unaided shooting positions and MPAJ during practice.

The bench is for load development.....the rest is Real World.
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: muzzle jump Reply with quote

Yes I have a Lead sled and it works great for anyone recoil shy. I use it mostly for my slug guns.


My front rest is a tripod design that uses a Protector owl ear front bag on it. The bag is designed for a tripod rest. It's filled with sand.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Handloader
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: muzzle jump Reply with quote

I shoot 416 Rigby and 458 Lott from the bench when working up loads, but, then only with the aid of the Lead Sled. IMO damage can be done to the stock if the sled is overloaded and the stock left to absorb all the recoil. I prefer around 50lbs of lead for this shooting and with it no significant muzzle rise occurs.

Stock design often dictates the direction of recoil energy, whether straight back or at an angle. I have a low comb 375 H&H that jumps completely off the front rabbit ears as, I presume, the recoil energy is directed to a downward angle to the shooter's shoulder which causes a muzzle rise in reaction. High comb rifles, such as my 340 Weatherby, tend to direct the force straight back to the shoulder and seldom leave the front rest eventhough the ftlbs is nearly identical to the 375 H&H.

I believe Windswalker makes a valid point about load development on the bench vs sighting in off a field position. I find some shift in zero when comparing both methods, especially with the heavy hitters and less so with the more moderate cartridges. I believe there is wisdom in checking this out with your hunting rifle and see if this is the case.
Back to top
View user's profile
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 5001
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: muzzle jump Reply with quote

I found that, with a hard kicking rifle on a bench, I needed to be aware of holding the fore end down on the bag with the same force every time. I got better groups and didn't have to worry much about "magnum eyebrow".

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Jack
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 19, 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: muzzle jump Reply with quote

Try removing the front sling swivel before shooting from a front rest. The front sling swivel catches on the sandbag during the recoil cycle and adds an inconsistency. A front swivel on a sandbag rest is almost a guarantee of vertical stringing.
What you want is for the rifle to slide freely on the bags, the same way every time. Benchrest shooters often use talcum powder, teflon spray, teflon tape, or other stuff to make their rifle slide on the bags with little or no resistance.
Any time I hear 'vertical stringing' from the benchrest, it's almost always a front rest issue, and if you're using a good front rest, and locating the rifle on the rest the same way every time (that's what the front stop is for), I'd bet it's the front swivel.
BTW, the standard QD front swivel is a machine screw that goes into a nut recessed in the front of the stock. Unscrewing the front swivel is usually easy and will do no harm.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 7 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.