i got lucky a few years back and bought 1 single ticket to a gun raffel and won a .270 or 30 06. I ended up adding a few more hundred bucks and got a rem 300 ultra mag when they were brand new.

My forhead sports a new scar between my eyes from repeated scope slaps when i sight in new scopes.

i got the synthetic charcoal stock fluted bull barrel style. since that day ive prolly bought 5 or 6 $300-$800 scopes for it and the recoil from the weapon destroys them.

I have put it back in the gun cabinet and dusted off my old 30-30 recently and realized i had forgotten what a sweet rifel i already owned.

a box of 20 rounds for the 300 is $40 around here too.

if anyone is considering a 300 ultra as a new toy, you might wanna go speak to someone who owns one first cause if i could go back.. i woulda gotten the 30-06 instead.

I weigh 230 or so and stand 6'3" and learned to shoot in the Marines, relying on body size alone wont save your forehead.

if you dont mind spending a ton on ammo, and can buy .50 cal rated scopes to handle the massive recoil, its a very accurate and potent weapon. Theres no bears or elk or elephants around mississippi so it was really too much for me anyway.

Nowdays i just take it out to let some of my skinny, loud mouth friends punish thier heads with it for a good laugh.

hey gameslave, my boss got a 300rum swears it don't kick. so i asked him how many rinoes has he seen in montana where he hunts elk. o was tha answer. dont need it then huh. the big 8mm is overrated also. the best all around rifle is in my opinion is the 30-30. 100gr to 180gr nothin else needed. Dave

gameslave,

Welcome to the forums,

My father owns a 300RUM I havn't shot it yet and don't plan to I like the "Standard" calibers like the 8mm Mauser, 303 British, 30-06Spring etc.

Dimitri

There is accumulative data suggesting hunting bullets with muzzle velocities in the 2,800 to 3,000 fps range have increased penetration and construction integrity than the same bullets at higher velocities. The advantage of hyper-velocity rounds lies in their flatter trajectory, yet, the vast majority of game is taken under 200yds and very little between 200 and 300yds.

Part of the hunting skill that needs reemphasizing, IMO, is that of stalking one's game close enough to place the first shot as precisely as possible, thus ensuring as humane a kill as possible. Greater distances increase the likelihood of placement error.

Standard rounds afford effective and efficient killing power. Hyper velocity rounds will continue to diminish in sales as a more realistic approach returns to that narrow segement of the market that initially accepted it. For many, the hyper rounds have never had an appeal to begin with. Higher recoil, higher ammo costs, lower barrel life, shortened scope life show the cost to benefit ratio of hyper velocity to be toward the impracticle if not the irrational and, one might argue, the unethical.

As for Jamison and the redisgn :

He did win big time in court

Wasnt long after that when USRAC ceased to be

I think it was a bogus lawsuit , as it had been done before , I dont think they would follow his design to a T , and if they didnt , then it couldnt easily be said that his design was copied ..

The idea behind the short, fat case is that a short fat powder column burns more efficiently than a long skinny cloumn , so therefore you can get same performance ( supposedly ) with less powder in a lighter rifle .. Not a new idea ..

But . no I dont have , nor will I have a short or super short in my future .. I use what I use , because I like them , and I dont buy just because something is new ..

GroovyJack: one picks up rumors about what transpired between USRAC and Jamison and "Shooting Times" along with consistencies and inconsistencies. I hope at some point a full disclosure will occur.

Jamison's writing in ST was superb and he was a very nice person one on one and was readily available to talk guns and reloading any time. I wish him the best. And, IMO, ST has gone downhill since his departure.

I'm really happy with my experience with the 223/243/25 WSSM, 270 WSM, and 7mm SAUM. I am currently in the process of gathering the parts to assemble a 25 WSM on a Remington 7 action and think that, at least on paper, it looks to have excellent potential as a long range antelope rifle with 75 or 85 grain Barnes Xs.

That said, I like the 17 HM2, 17 HMR, 256 Win Mag, 256 Newton, and a variety of wildcats. While they won't do anything that can't be done with a variety of cartridges that existed prior to WW2, they are interesting and fun to shoot. It would be pretty boring to be a rifle nut without access to after-market parts.

Jeff

260remguy,

Welcome to the forums.

Dimitri

Years ago when I opted for a 30.06, one reason was that you can walk into the mom/pop store in Clints Well, AZ or Blackduck, MN and buy 30.06 cartridges, and in more than one weight.

I guess if I was into making 400 or 500 yard shots I'd opt for a 300 mag of some type, but even then I'd go for the 300 Win or 300 Wby.

Seems that the firearms companies create new rounds to generate new sales, can't blame them for that; and when the short action Rems and WSSM's die off I'm sure we will see a another new line or two come out and do the same things all over again.

Now watch, in 10 years I'll have Lazzeroni Warbird (.308) shooting 180 grains at 3550 fps or a Lazzeroni Titan (.338) pushing a 225 grainer at 3300 as my go to guns-NOT! Most likely a 338 win or a 35 Whelen if I need more frontal area.

It is easier today to introduce a new cartridge than in years past. Thank the computer age for that. We have seen four new commerical chamberings announced/introduced in the past 120 days alone! These and other recent cartridges often perform exactly as stated and offer marginally superior results or fill a specialty niche. When discontinued, great bargains can be had in new rifles chambered for those rounds.

The manufacturers of these arms, IMO, often misjudge the shooting public's interest in "new" and "better". Many hunters are slow to adopt new technology, including new cartridges, when the exisiting stuff works just fine. Experience in the shooting sports often diminishes the luster of new products and those products must prove themselves significantly superior to have any hope of gaining acceptance.

All that said, I am very intrigued by the "new" Ruger 375 which engenders visions of browns and griz on misty mornings. I may even buy one! Very tempting.

Glad you mentioned the .375 Ruger; last night I was wondering what you think might happen with this round. I suppose a certain number of Americans may go to it just because it's born in the USA, but I don't imagine others around the world going for it over the .375 H & H. BTW, how is the 375 Ultra Mag selling?

I do think the .308 Marlin Express will do well..or maybe I just think it should, at least it allows Marlin to compete somewhat against the Browning lever rifles shooting spitzers. And I kinda think the .338 Federal will be forgotten soon,although it looks like a very good cartridge and possibly be more popular than a 338-06 just because of the cartridge availability, but how many rifle makers are chambering for it?

As for the little 17 HMR and 17 Mach 2, I think the HMR will survive but the Mach 2, will fade into the sunset soon.

Arizona Hunter: John Barsness is one gun writer that has his pulse on the real world of firearms and hunting. And, he is a super nice person to correspond with or with whom to discuss matters. In the current edition of "Rifle" magazine, he has his initial evaluation of the Hawkeye in 375 Ruger. This rifle is on an allocated basis with most distributors, however, our shop got a call this morning asking if we wanted one. Need I say, that it is MINE!! and it should arrive tomorrow. Brass and dies haven't been found yet but they will hit the market soon. In the interim, I've got one box of factory Hornady 270gr that should arrive with the rifle and I have a much used Leupold 1.5-5X20 that will be on it by sunset tomorrow.

If the world doesn't fall apart, I plan to hunt Alaskan browns in 2009 if we can draw on the Kenai or, if not, we will go back to an area south of King Salmon. My last brown was downed with a 338WM, Ruger No1 @ 120 paces. It was a good brown but not in the 10 or 11' square area. That bear fell to one shot from a 250gr Barnes X, although I shot him two more times to be sure. The first shot had broken the left shoulder, penetrated the lungs and exited the far side. I've been a Barnes fan every since and have killed elk and moose with total confidence in the bullet.

Prior to commercialization, there was much balleyhu about the 338-06, how great it was and how huge the demand. Now factory available, that "huge" demand has become a trickle and sales are marginal. The 308 Marlin and the 338 Federal may have some logical applications, but, IMO they are DOA, although it may be a lingering death. OTOH, Ruger continues to sell 257 Roberts enough to warrant chambering and has now reintroduced the 358 Win in their Hawkeye series! Brilliant!! Ruger has put new life in so many cartridges that were on the dustbin.

Maybe I misunderstand the market, but, I don't see how the 325 WSM is going to survive. Still, manufacturers must see some potential as Kimber and Savage offer rifles so chambered.

I agree with you on the matter of the 17 caliber rimfires. We have some really dedicated shooters that love the HMR, but, ammo prices have dampened sales of the Mach II. OTOH, sales of 22 mag have increased during the past two years. We can't keep a used one on the shelf. Recently, we had three used Ruger 10-22Ms come in from one seller, along with a SIG (!) and the scramble was on. I tagged one of the Rugers for myself as I like the rifle and they are hard to find.

Perhaps, the oddest chambering being offered is Savage's 5X35. Amazing ballistics out of this one. Along with their RH LP bolt action with AccuTrigger, this is one package that is intriguing. Can we say "500 yard prairie dogger"?

OK, back to the loading bench for me.

handloader, I did some research on the 325wsm, the ballistics is only 125 to 150fps faster with the same bullet as my 8-06 /29" k.kale. It's all I'd need for long range target/animals. I have'nt seen factory loads of wsm in any stores here in north cal. Dave

Hi fireball3: finding 325WSM ammo can be a challenge at the dealer level as well. Our store tries to stock a wider range of ammo than is normally found in most shops, so we go out of our way to inventory some obsolete and limited sales ammo. Several of our distributors don't stock the 325WSM and those that do often have limited inventories.

In fact, it is easier to obtain 32 Win Spl, 8mm RM, 38-55, 44-40 and, even, 22 HiPower than it is to currently find 325WSM. I expect that will change as we closer to hunting season.

Handloader wrote:

At our store the WSSMs and the RSAUMs sit on the shelf and wither away alongside the 204 Rugers. ... I say "good ridance" and RIP. ... And, while I am ranting would anyone care to speculate on the future of the 17HMR and 17 Mach II? Do you believe they will be around in five or ten years? I believe they will be dead in five years. ...

I was doing some searches on WSSM as I'm considering one for my next AR project and came across this topic from 6 years ago (full post is below). I read all the posts and found them interesting. I think its a good time to bring this topic back to the surface.

_______________
Many could argue persuasively about the theoretical advantages of the WSSM and RSAUM series. They would extol the virtues of these rounds as touted by the gun rags (ie shorter action, lighter rifles, more efficient cartridges, better accuracy). And, I must admit, on a theoretical level they could probably make a good case. Such academics, however, aren't the main reasons, from my observation, that our customers puchase rifles. At our store the WSSMs and the RSAUMs sit on the shelf and wither away alongside the 204 Rugers.

Feeding difficulties, cost of ammo, the need for new loading blocks, the price of brass, etc, have potential buyers giving standard cartridges and rifles a second look. Most of what we sell is in traditional chamberings.

Advances in powder and bullet technology has breathed new life into standard rounds like the 243Win, 308, 06, 270Win, etc. These long time favorites simply have gotten much better. So much so that I doubt we will hear of the super short fat magnums as time marches on. Remington has already scaled back on the RSAUMs.

I say "good ridance" and RIP. I believe the overwhelming rejection of the short and fats is a grass roots snubbing of those manufacturers that believe simply because something is "new" that it is "better" and will an instant success. They have done it before with the 5mm Remington, 256 Magnum and other pretender rounds. And, while I am ranting would anyone care to speculate on the future of the 17HMR and 17 Mach II? Do you believe they will be around in five or ten years? I believe they will be dead in five years. But, that's just the opinion on one jaded hunter and handloader.

What do you think? Do you give a thumbs up or down on the future of the WSSMs/RSAUMs?

BTW: Next year we celebrate the 100 anniversary of the 06; I am sure it will have a 200th anniversary as well.