I have all my paperwork done to get my concealed weapons permit here in Oregon, but I don't have anything smaller than a 357 Mag. I'm wondering what would be a good and small self defense gun. I'm looking to spend no more than 4 or 5 hundred bucks. And again, I want something small. Also, I plan on getting a laser for it. So what would be a good small gun that I wouldn't have trouble getting add ons for?

Welcome aboard munky871, I'm sure someone will be able to answer that for you. We don't have those privileges here.

Welcome munky871. There is another forum on CCW I started a while back. It would be in your best interest to read what some have had to say before you go shopping.

Let me say this, carrying concealed puts you in the up close and personal combat mode. If you have to pull your gun, the distance won't be that great (less than ten yards) and a laser really isn't needed. As for caliber, bigger is better, but, bigger calibers end up being bigger guns, making it difficult to conceal. I settled on the 380 auto for most of the year. In the winter months when I can wear more clothes, I do carry a 1911 style 45 ACP. That's just a few months out of the year though. It gets hot around here and little clothing is worn, that's where the 380 auto comes in handy. I have a KELTEC P3AT on me most of the time, and a SIG SAUER P232 for other times when clothing permits. The KELTEC is under $300 and weighs 6 ounces, lots of cops have them as backup guns. There is some really good personal defense ammo available in 380 auto, so, don't think your at a disadvantage.

Everyone will have their own opinions, but, what ever you settle on, practice, practice, practice. Practice drawing, shooting without aiming, and from a sitting position (like from a table or from behind the wheel of your car). And, don't forget to develop the proper mind set.
Keep it coming...

I have two carry pistols but the one that I carry most often is a six inch 357 magnum. The other one is a single shot 45 colt derringer that can be carried when it is necessary to conceal a gun with minimal clothes. I don't like the small cartridges or their performance so I don't choose to carry anything smaller than the 357 mag. 38+p and 9mm are identical in ballistics and they are too low powered for my tastes. the 380,25s and 22s are worthless in my opinion. The problem is that the 6 inch 357 is as big as I can carry and have any hope of concealing it. I don't trust autos - never had one that would fire every time. My only choices in autos would be the 10mm, 45ACP, and 50 caliber. In wheel guns which I prefer are 357, 41, 44, 45, and 454. The 44 and 454 are too much gun for me to shoot often enough to get good with and the 45 is a bit underpowered unless you have a Ruger (mine is not). The 41 is ok but I don't have one and I probably won't ever get one. That leaves me with the two that I do carry. I am a lot more comfortable with my 357 than any of my other guns. It is accurate and I can use it instinctively.
The really important thing about the gun that you choose to carry is to get so used to shooting it that it is an extension of your hand. You should be able to hit a man in the middle of his mass in near total darkness without aiming up to 7 yards. You should get used to using a double tap - two rounds check for any movement and go from there. Being absolutely sure that your gun will hit where you want it to is the most important thing in a carry gun. You have to shoot it a lot at different ranges to become sure of your gun. If it fails to fire - even once you can be in real trouble so make sure that it never misses a beat.

Winter carry S&W Mod 19 .357 Combat Magnum. Summer carry is a firestar 9mmX19. If and when I replace the Firestar it will be a Kahr in 9mmX19 or .40. They are flat and have little to hang up on clothing. You carry what you can hide on your body. If I had a bigger body I would carry my Colt 1911 .45 ACP...

You must be very good with what ever you carry. Practice, practice, practice. In a pinch you want everything to come automatically and be driven by your subcontious...

Read well what George and Paul have posted...

I knew you would get some good advice. These guys know what they're talking about.......

Glock 10mm, or a 1911 45acp Kimber or what ever manufacture you prefer.

I agree with everyone else. However there are some other things to be taken into consideration. What is the area you will be in most of the time? Urban areas and suburban areas do not lend them selves to magnum level cartridges as the possibility of a through and through hit will stop somewhere uninteded is NOT GOOD, but if you are rural or remote then they will be a great choice. And .45 Colt rounds with anything from a 225gr SilverTip up to the 250-260 class lead bullets will pack a mighty big wallop. Now if the meanest thing you are going to encounter is a ticked off house cat then a .22LR is all you need, but if the meanest badest thing you may run into is a big bear then you need something a little bigger. Bottom line is have the defensive firearm with you and have confidence in it (function and accuracy with power) to get the job you want done, done.

I talked to my local Deputy Sheriff the other day (who was more then glad to answer the question) what ammunition he was issued. His department researched this problem and came up with (they all have 9mmX19 Kahr) Federal Supreme-Shok (fragmentable) in the first magazine (for schools and other crouded places) and Federal Hydro-Shok in all other magazines. As I have never been that impressed with fragmentable rounds and I still haven't found a source for them (Supreme-Shok) and even Federal's web site doesn't show them. I have been using Federal Hydro-Shoks. If you look at the ballistics for any self defense round you will find the chances of it going completely through and through is very high. There is no getting around this fact of life when carrying.

Even using the fragmentable rounds if you hit an arm or any other thin part of the person even they (fragmentables) will go through and through...

Welcome to the site Arron...Oh...And By The Way...You haven't met my "Missouri Barn Cat"...

If you want to put an assailant down, research and purchase Black Talon.

I think it's now sold as 'Ranger' under these #'s RA45T or RA45TP.

Black Talons are over-rated just like their name that got them into trouble in the first place. They don't act or perform any different then a good mushrooming bullet. They (contrary to popular belief) are not a buzz saw when they hit something like tissue. In fact they tend to fragment a bit. A lot of "Media Hype" and Olin/Winchester add campain...

It was a sales gimic that ended up in Winchester having to remove them from the market...

Not that they aren't a good choice, but just too hard to find when there are too many other excellent bullets out there, to have to hunt all over he-double-toothpicks to find...

buddy of mine has a .357 and a box of talons, went to the range, they acted like a cheap hollow point in my opinion.. he was all kinda geeked cause "these are black talons" i turned around pulled some gold dots out and said here check these... he was at the store buying them up the next day...

I've also read the writers reports about hydra-shoks punching out a ball of clothing, acting like a hardball and not opening at all. I'll take a little fragmentation. I have done tissue tests with both. If my carcass depended on actual performance rather than a perception given me by someone else... I'll take the Black Talons.

You will notice I said "Housecat", but I have two that make people jump when they see them one is a big old black cat named Rudy(born on Christmas), and the other Misha(we were watching Enemy at the Gates and the wife wanted to give the two new cats Rusian type names, the other Sasha is about 9 pounds) who is a tabby cat, both are WELL over twelve pounds. HA HA. As far your Missouri Barn Cat is concerned if it is Bobcat or even a Cougar then we got those up here too! For them I like smething a "bit" larger than a .22LR HA HA!! But If that is all I had then I would sure as heck make darn sure I made em' count, I am not a pilgrim and I do NOT skin Grizz!!! HA HA HA!!!

I have been here a time or two but mostly lurk and read other's posts to see what I can learn.

As far the through and through problem it is very likely it will happen with any of the higher velocity cartridges in a hollow point design if they get material in the opening the SXT or Same eXact Thing" as the Talon bullets are notorious for this in the 180gr bullet design. But the heavier the bullet and/or more velocity the more likely it will happen. But for some reason you don't hear of it too often with the big old blackpowder type cartridges as much; this could be due to the fact that most folks do not think them capable of performing as well as the newer aged cartridges and the fact what they are chambered in are big single action wheel guns for the most part so that could be a big factor in them being over looked. While most of us who deal with this on a regular basis know different.

Right now in my 9x19 I have some really potent Hirtenberger +P+ 124gr or maybe 115gr's not sure right at the moment, FMJ's made for the MP5's(yes it is safe, Hi-Point.) Now if those DO NOT do a through and through then I will be very disapointed. These are not my first choice but are what I have right now for a "defensive" type round for the 9x19 but I need to get some true PD rounds for it maybe a trip down to the south side of town to Bass Pro tomorrow is in order for more AMMO!!! I have shot some 165gr Golden Sabre in my .40 and it was a handfull but I would have NO QALMS about this for my defensive round. Personal favorite is a Hydra-Shok or in the case of my 10mm a Winchester 175gr SilverTip and or any Hornady Custom load. The rest just depends on what I am going to be doing and where I am going ot be doing it. Now if the claims of the Extreme Shock fragibles are to be taken for truth, that is one incredible design of cartridge makers magic! But they are EXTREMELY EXSPENSIVE!!! But most good ammunition is.

I have to look up AVA, MO. Now I feel a challenge for a "big cat fight" might just have to see if Rudy could pull it off, Misha is about a weakling unless you are messing with his favorite stuffed dog that he sleeps on and guards from even me! HE HE HE HE!!!

Like I said said carry what you think is best suited for the task that you are confident in for dealing with the problem. Somedays if I could I would mount a 155mm on the Sable for driving in Omaha, NE the folks on the west side of the Misouri River can get real mean!!

Just a note the Ranger SXT's are the ones that are Black Talons but Winchester wouldn't sell them to non-LEO's, the SXT's that were just sold to the public were slightly different.

Dimitri