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bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot
Big Game Hunting topics that dont fit other categories
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stablebuck
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:33 am    Post subject: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

I usually meat hunt in South Texas every winter and the last couple years even when making clean lung shots with a 25-06 and 300 WSM 80 lbs does will run at least 50 yds before collapsing.
Most of these shots are under 100 yds and I was using ballistic tipped nosler bullets.
Years before when hunting with core-lokt bullets in a 243 Win the does would drop instantly from a lung shot.
I think that the bullet manufacturers have been counterproductive in an effort to conserve bullet weight retention and programmed bullet deformation. In doing so, they have essentially reinvented the FMJ bullet. Of course if you are trying to plant a bull elk with a heart/lung shot thru the shoulder blades then some of these bullets would be perfect, but for meat hunting situations it seems that the cheapest PSP bullets are the best medicine.
Thoughts?
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glockman55
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

Myself I'll shoot the Deer between the shoulder and neck, if I feel comfortable at the range. They drop in their tracks. That's just me. Usually the heart lung area is the best % shot though.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

When ballistic tip bullets first hit the market they had a problem with them not opening up when they hit the game animal. They (The bullet manufacturers) said they solved that problem. My thoughts? NO...I still use soft point and flat point bullets. They (the game animal) drop right now if I do my part.

Remington Core-Lokt bullets are still hard to beat. Proof? Remington still sells them in loaded ammunition and bulk bullets for reloaders. Like Stablebuck, before I started reloading I took a lot of deer and elk with Remington Core-Lokt ammunition. And if I had to stop reloading I would go back to the Core-Lokt Remington ammunition.

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Shipster
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

stablebuck I have found the opposite with the Nosler BT bullets. In the past out of my .280 Rem with 140 gr. they have a grenade affect and do more damage then needed, at 3080 fps it is ugly. My friends 308 with Nosler BT 150 gr bullet at 2850 does the exact same thing. 25-06 100 gr Nosler BT the same thing. So we quit using Nosler BT bullets, the best preforming bullet that I have found for me has been the Speer Flatbase Hotcore. I have taken probably 30 deer with the 145 gr bullet from ranges of 50 to 650 yards and have only recovered 1 bullet. Penetration is excellent and expansion is excellent and the price is still awesome. My son just got a Weatherby Vanguard in 300 WSM and wanted to try the Nosler 180 accubonds and we will see what happens.

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

I never use Nosler bullets for deer hunting. In my 25-06 I use 117 gr BTSP Hornady's, and when deer are hit in the chest area, they fall in their tracks as a rule with a few going a few yards. Bushy's right about the Rem core-lokt bullets.

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moose2
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

I have used the Nossler BT's in my .257 Roberts and 6mm, though they took animals, I got alot of pass throughs which I didn't believe a good bullet should do. Since gone back to using 117 Sierra Prohunters in the .257 and am quite satisfied with them. I tried using the Hornadys, but the Sierras were noticeable more accurate in my .257.

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stablebuck
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

257 Roberts?!?! You are old school!!! Laughing That's my dad's favorite he got it in the model 70 in 1958. He shot his first trophy whitetail buck with it then and I shot my first with it 39 years later. What a great cartridge!
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moose2
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

stablebuck wrote:
257 Roberts?!?! You are old school!!! Laughing That's my dad's favorite he got it in the model 70 in 1958. He shot his first trophy whitetail buck with it then and I shot my first with it 39 years later. What a great cartridge!
I don't know about being old school or not, but the .257 still remains as an excellent big game caliber. Somewhat overshadowed by the 25-06 for sure, it still does the job nicely. Not a whole lot of choices in the quarter bores, the .257 still has its niche for someone like myself who likes hunting with the old classics to someone who may want a quarter bore but may be a little recoil sensitive to the likes of a 25-06. For sure you can't go wrong with either one. I have to laud Ruger for keeping it in their line up and they have even introduced it in their hawkeye line. Ruger also has kept the venerable 6MM Remington in their inventory, another great caliber that I really appreciate. Nice to see that you have also had good expierence with the .257. Hope your dad held on to it.--

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stablebuck
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

yeah the ole pops still has it and he used it next to me with my 25-06 a couple weeks ago hunting some Texas whitetails. He refuses to go with anything new. His rifles: .222 Remington, .257 Roberts, and .338 Win Mag. I tried to convine him to buy a 7mm Rem Mag or a 325 WSM, but he's stubborn as hell. I'm a little more open to revolution with my 25-06 and 300 WSM. Different strokes for different folks. Cool
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moose2
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

10-4--Keep on Strokin

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guncollector
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

A double lung shot that does not also take out the heart or major arteries will obviously kill a deer but not until the blood still circulating runs out of oxygen for the muscles. Usually takes about 100 yards. If you take out the heart, in my experience, the deer seldom go more than 20 yards. The only way to drop a deer on the spot is to stop the brain, sever the spinal cord or get lucky enough that they go into shock along with a fatal wound.

As far as bullet construction, thin skinned animals like deer can be killed with just about anything from a lead mini-ball to the latest greatest fail safe ballistic X super bullet. Personnaly, I use either Sierra Game Kings or Barnes X bullets.

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yotebuster
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

I too shoot a 257 "Bob" and can't say enough about its ability to kill and its mild manners. A real joy to shoot. Mine doesn't like anything heavier than 90 grain bullets though.
An instant "dirt nap" can be accomplished with a high shoulder shot, IMHO. I've got a few hunting spots that I definitely don't want game to run away and I employ that shot whenever possible. But, I don't use it if the game is quartering away to much. Broadside, or nearly broadside shots are preferred.
I've had good luck with Nosler BT's and also can't say enough about Core Loks. They are hard to beat.
Yotebuster Very Happy Very Happy [b]

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sniper
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

stablebuck wrote:
257 Roberts?!?! You are old school!!! Laughing What a great cartridge!

Exactly! "New and Improved"= marketing run amok!

I checked out the numbers for the short, fat 25 WSSM. Not a great deal better than the OOoold Roberts. I like mine.

For that matter, performance wise, most of the the "newer" cartridges are the old standards with a new coat of paint. Confused
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4rum
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: bullet type/speed, proximity of game, and impact of shot Reply with quote

I think you guys have hit on a real issue here. The newer "hotter" calibers are selling due to hype in the trades (some deserved, some not). Following closely and trying to keep up with the market, the bullet and component manufacturers are now supplying bullets for the buyers market. They do not always perform well on the lower end of the velocity spectrum.

I'm pretty old fashioned, I hunt whitetail now with either an old 7 mauser or even an old 8 mm mauser. It is difficult to find a quality bullet that I'm satisfied with first, then performs well on paper and meat. Luckily I have found loads that work great for both guns. I use these old 'war horses' by choice. I've owned and shot deer (white tails) with just about everything. Even shot a nice buck with a sling shot once (my mother will attest to the shot, she was with me) ((no I didn't hurt the deer)) (((well it probably stung pretty darn good, I shot him with a marble))) ((((ya'll like parenthesis?)))) (((((ok for those that do here's a couple extry () )))))

Point being, I agree with what I think is being said, SOME current bullet construction is tailored to higher velocities than some cartridges loaded with that bullet diameter will perform effectively with. We probably should pay greater attention to ACTUAL velocity we can generate and choose bullets which will perform in that range.
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