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Good and bad of H4895
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Border guy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:22 am    Post subject: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

As a newcomer to the interesting world of reloading, I have a basic query for the experienced minds here. I live in south Texas wit no basement and a garage that hovers around 100 degrees most of the year. That said, I have to store powder inside. Trying to keep it simple and safe, I selected H4895 as my first powder because I could use it for the three calibers I started loading- .30-.30, .308 WIN and .223. My line of thinking was, since I have to store it indoors, I'll use one powder and buy it a can at a time.

Now comes the question- is there anything that would invalidate this, to the point where another powder would be vastly superior in any of these calibers? Bullet vary, I have loaded a few small lots of several bullet types and weights, so try and base any info on powder alone. CCI 200 and 400 primers were used as well.

I look forward to learning more and trying new things. I was hesitant to make the leap and spend the money on something I wasn't sure I could do. And let me tell you, chambering that first handload in my Marlin 336 was a slightly terrifying moment. I even debated wrapping the rifle in my body armor, and pulling the triger while wearing a kevlar glove!! Once it went 'bang' the way it was suppose to, I was hooked. I can't wait to move north again and have a basement reloading area instead of the living room loading I am forced to do now.

Thanks ahead of time for any replies!

BG
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Border guy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:38 am    Post subject: Re: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

I forgot, I had considered H-Varget, but there are just a couple places that carry any loading supplies, and H4895 was what they had!
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popgun
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

Hey BG,
No one powder is going to give you the best results in the three rifles even though H4895 may give good results in some of the calibers you list. Some reloading manuals, Nosler and Sierra Reloading Manuals for example, list the most accurate powder tested in their load testing. So that powder would be your first choice with that bullet weight., rifle, case make, primer combination.
You do not have to rely on your local dealers for reloading supplies including powder. You can order your powder, primers, and bullets from online sources. That also allows you to price shop. If you buy enough powders some companies give you a break on the hazmat fee. Here are some online sources and far from a complete list. The good part is that they have a complete selection of powders.
www.midwayusa.com/
www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/
www.lockstock.com/
With the temperatures you encounter in south Texas you should visit the Hodgdon website and read up on the Hodgdon 'Extreme' line of powders. These powders give stable velocity over a wide range of temperature changes. That is a big deal in 100 degree temps.
www.hodgdon.com/smokel.../page4.php
You would see that Varget and H4895 are just two of the powders in the extreme line.
Storing your powders in a cool place in your home is just fine as long as the storage spot is away from open flames. I have a closet dedicated to ammo and powders. A fire marshal would have a fit at the quantity but they are stored safely.
If you are limited by space for a reloading bench like I am you might try a fold up table that you can set up to reload then store out of the way when not in use.

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Border guy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

Thanks popgun. Part of the reason I choose the H4895 was because it was in the extreme line. When I got my initial order from Midway it had a small booklet from Hodgdon, so I leaned that way. Ordering is all I can do, the selection of supplies is so small that there really is now other way- except in the case of powder and primers. I want to keep very small amounts of both on hand for now- so ordering quantities of either is a no-go. I have gotten used to ordering lots of things for my various hobbies- but te storage thing keeps me from stocking up on powder and primers. I load in small batches, anyways, fifty or so at a time, so keeping small amounts doesn't really matter. I just wondered if H4895 was general enough to work sufficiently well to not matter for the time being. what really makes me wonder is the cartridge volume differances and burn times- which I am slowly learning about. The .30-30 and .308 are realatively close, while the .223 is much smaller and the questionable one of the three.

As far as space- well that was one item that kept me out for a long time- that is until I noticed the little Frankford Arsenal portable stand. Works great!! Most tiems live in the garage until I need them, then I put on somee inane movie I have seen a thousand times to size and prime- move to the kitchen to charge, then back to the couch to seat and crimp.

Thanks again, popgun, especially for the link to hodgdon!

BG
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popgun
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:50 am    Post subject: Re: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

While you visit the Hodgdon site look over the loads section there for your three calibers. It is the same information that they publish in the Annual Manuals. You will see the powders most used in the 223 and the others.

Another source of powder, primers, cases, and bullets are the gun shows. There is usually at least one component dealer at the shows. Depending on how far you have to travel to attend a show you might save on shipping and hazmat fees. I found with the distance that I have to travel by the time I pay parking, show entry fee, lunch, fuel etc. that I could have made the purchases online and waited for the brown truck for less money.

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Chris Young, aka: popgun, Moderator
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:18 am    Post subject: Re: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

You should note that H4895 is as close to a universal rifle powder as you can get. It will fire consistantly at 60% loads and works in cases from 222 all the way up to 45-70. it is the one powder that you most often see on the page of reloads - no matter what the cartridge is!

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
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popgun
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

Agreed, but it still may not be the best powder for the cartridge. If you want one powder and fair results stick to the one powder otherwise go with the most accurate powder tested.

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rrogacki
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

Good point popgun. But don't you think trying different powder/primer/load combinations will yield the best results or am I misunderstanding your post ?? Nosler has a most accurate reccomendation notation in their manuals (or at least the edition I have) and I've always found that their most accurate load was not necessarily true.

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popgun
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

Your point is my point too. The key word in my previous post was "fair results" not excellent results. Very Happy

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sniper
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

Hey, Border Guy; Welcome!

I think the Hodgdon Extreme line of powder is designed to have less sensitivity to variations in temperature when loaded in a cartridge.
I don't believe the EXTREME disignation means that it will take extremes of storage tempratures better than other powders, though.

In the days B.E. (before extreme) I have had powder for years, stored in my home or a storage unit, that has worked just fine, as long as the cans were kept tightly sealed. But, your and others' mileage may vary.

The way I load, a can of powder lasts me a LONG time, and all of the manuals warn about loading a different lot number of powder. Reduce the load just like you do with initial load development, they say.

At 7,000gr./per pound, @ 45-50 gr./per load, one can may last me as much as two years.

By the time I finish a can of powder, there have at least a couple of new powder lots come and gone. Buying a couple cans of powder of the same lot # at the same time, or close together, might be a good thing.
One of the "gurus" I have read, says to pick a bulllet, any bullet, (they are pretty much all good) then work up your load, using the two or three best powders, or accuracy loads listed in as many manuals.

When you find a good one, STOP! Don't mess much with that load any more, except maybe 1/4 grain on either side, just to be sure. Then fiddle with seating depth to get all the accuracy possible from the load. One guy I know starts the bullet .010 in. from the rifling, then increases the free travel by .005in. till he finds the "sweet spot".

By then, you will be so FRUSTRATED Mad by all the cartridge proctology, that you will just want to go out and KILL something! Very Happy Shooting


Last edited by sniper on Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Border guy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

Thanks fellas, for the advice. I do need to get more reloading manuals, I know, to compare loads and powders and maybe try something new. I sure have a long ways to go before I find those perfect loads!

BG
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sniper
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

Border guy wrote:
I sure have a long ways to go before I find those perfect loads! BG

Perfect load? Now THERE's a concept. Wink Sorta like the"Perfect" woman, Shocked or.....
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george20042007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:57 am    Post subject: Re: Good and bad of H4895 Reply with quote

We reload to find the best/accurate round for the GUN in question. I have several powders on hand...primers too. Various bullets as well. I have 2 different .243s, but, each shoots the same round differently. It takes a long time and lots of reloading to come up with that special combination, so, good luck.
Keep it coming...
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