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Should I crimp a jacketed projectile?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:56 pm    Post subject: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

Hi all.

Another noob question from me.

I recall to have read somewhere that you should not crimp a jacketed projectile unless it has a crimping canelure on it. Can't remember where I read this though.

Now my problem. I loaded a batch of 30 cal ammo and I have difficulty in chambering them. I check and found that the neck of the case is a tad large and wont get into the the chamber. I am sure if i crimp a tad, then it would fit in easier.

Any input on that?

Thanks
Gelan.

PS. I'll be goinbg to Cobar in Christmas to shoot some pigs. It will be hot. But I cant wait .. two weeks to go Smile

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

Crimping will only reduce the edge of the case, not the entire neck. I am surprised you have such a tight chamber neck in your rifle. Full length sizing should have restored your case to SAMMI specifications.

Anyway you can try it to see if it aids in feeding. You do not have to crimp into the canelure. The only reasons I would ever mess with crimping myself, is if you have a problem with bullets changing OAL in heavy recoil guns, or in a tube feed situation. Currently I have no need to crimp.

I'd full length size a case, measure it with a good micrometer and post the results here that we can double check with.


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Pitt55
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

Chambering can also be stiff if the shoulder is not moved back to SAMMI standards. Maybe check that you have the die adjusted properly?
Don

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

err.. againsts the wisdom received on

www.huntingnut.com/ind...pic&t=1595

I did go ahead and get a .300 whisper built. Embarassed

It is a wildcat that do not have SAAMI specs yet. Confused

However, since it uses a 308 barrel and 308 projectile it should have the same neck size as a 308 should it not? Question

Would it be because most wildcats are made to have tight tolerances so that they shoot and group better? or am I just un lucky? Rolling Eyes

I wonder if I lead cast my chamber and measure it againts my 308 would help?
If there is differences, do you think I could polish the chamber a tad to free it?


Gelan

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

gelandangan,

It probably has the same neck size perhaps your case necks are alittle on the long side ?? Confused

Dimitri

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

Go ahead and crimp the case mouth if that is the problem. There is two schools of thought on the subject of crimp or not to crimp non-canelured bullets. A light crimp on a bullet that does not have a canelure is not going to distort the bullet unless you get carried away and try to make a canelure by over crimping the case mouth. In my (not so) humble opinion the Lee FCD is the best way to go if you decide to crimp. If you buy factory ammunition you will find that it has been crimped. It is a bit unusual to flare the mouth of a rifle case in the first place unless it is a straight wall or you are loading lead (unjacketed) bullets If the problem is somewhere else. We would need more information.

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

I crimp jacketed bullets, using a Lee FCD, for my 45-70 all the time and seldom at the canelure. I second Bushy's comment. I doubt that crimping will solve your problem though cause that only crimps the very end of the neck, as someone already stated. More info required.

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

A chamber casting would answer a whole lot of questions IMO.


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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

Yes I will cast the chamber and measure the differences.

The caliber 300 whisper is designed to use 221 fireball case necked UP to 30 cal.
The brass I used is truncated 223 necked DOWN to 30 cal.

So I reckon there should be a neck tickening on the brass when you neck down and a thinning when you stretch it.

Gelan.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

Aah...There we go...May have to do an outside turning job.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

gelandangan,

Quote::
The brass I used is truncated 223 necked DOWN to 30 cal.

300 Whisper:
www.stevespages.com/jp...hisper.jpg

223 Remington:
www.stevespages.com/jp...ington.jpg

There seems to be quiet abit of necking down and cutting off, so as Bushmaster said outside turning. Smile Forster sells a handheld neck turning tool you might be interested in might help you with your problem. Very Happy

Also good job on not going with the fireball, doesnt seem like enough case to neck up in my personal opinion. Very Happy

Dimitri

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sniper
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

Gelandangan:

You seem like most of us were at your level of inexperience. I would recommend buying and reading at least one good reloading "how-to" manual, and if Australia has Public Libraries, visit and read some issues of hunting magazines, if Oz has such.

If not, New Zealand supports several very good hunting publications. Just don't believe ALL you read! Very Happy Then do some research on rifle calibers. Don't touch your gun till you undertstand most of what you read.

I have no experience with the .300 Whisper, but from your description, it sounds no better than the military .30 carbine round. The gymnastics you describe in order to to obtain proper brass approaches masochism, IMO, and your choice of calibers has gottten you in 'WAAY over your head! Shocked

If you want to upgrade your arsenal in a POSITIVE way, buy a standard caliber, .243, 6.5X55mm, .308, .270 or 30-06, or whatever caliber you fancy, then SHOOT it, develop some accurate loads and experience in the process, then, then go hunting.

I understand Australia has few large animals, excepting the Water buffalo, and the wild pig. Feral Donkeys are classed as varmints. Hunting those, or whatever your friend's farm holds of a large size should give you plenty of experience to make a more informed choices when/if you wish to "upgrade".

I hope I have not souded too harsh, but concern for the safety of forum members is a constant here.

Above all, Be safe! Smile
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

@sniper

sniper wrote:
Gelandangan:

If you want to upgrade your arsenal in a POSITIVE way, buy a standard caliber, .243, 6.5X55mm, .308, .270 or 30-06,

Hi sniper... I got them calibers and hunted with them calibers. I want the 300 whisper because it is a 300 whisper.
I do not want to use this caliber for my main hunting rifle, nor do I want to hunt buffalo, donkey or camels. My main spieces are pigs and goats and most of my shot are done inside 50 meters because for me it is not the kill that is fun, but the HUNT (stalking and reading tracks and whatnots).

sniper wrote:

I hope I have not souded too harsh, but concern for the safety of forum members is a constant here.

Above all, Be safe! Smile

You are concered with my safety, you are not harsh, and I do thank you for your advice.


@ Dimitri
Yes the main reason for me to go 223 is because it made more sense that way. Expanding a 221 may not give me a uniform neck and the material are stretched (how to spell that word?) way too thin and may be dangerous and also may not have long service life.




BTW guys, I have done as Bushy said, and slightly crimp the end of my case. Now every round slide in smoothly. It seems that the tip of the case , uncrimped, catching the opening of the neck chamber. So giving it a slight crimpt, made it slides in smoothly.
WOnder if this may be problem in the field when some grit may get into the action.

Gelan

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A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
gelandangan,

300 Whisper:
www.stevespages.com/jp...hisper.jpg

Dimitri

Whoops!!! that cartridge dimension is WRONG!!! it is too long by 0.04". JD Jones, the inventor of this cartridge say to use 1.360" CAL. Shocked
Not that it matter to you guys I suppose... Embarassed
Gelan

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A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I crimp a jacketed projectile? Reply with quote

Hey what do you know you are right! I used the power of Google and found a website deticated to the Whisper.

Anyways they say:

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=453 wrote:
About once a month, someone is trimming down brass for their 300 whisper to 1.4". It's a pretty common mistake since that is the length of the .221 fireball; but not the 300 whisper. The real trim to length for the 300 whisper is 1.355".
Don't feel too bad. Even the Hornady book got it wrong.
The new Sierra book got it right.

Smile

Dimitri

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