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Bought a 209 Conversion kit for my 700ML
Hunting and discussion with Muzzle Loaders, Archery and other Primitive weapons

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DallanC
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Joined: Jan 18, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:35 pm    Post subject: Bought a 209 Conversion kit for my 700ML Reply with quote

Ok so my Rem700ML started having cap ignition problems. I'd fire the trigger and the hammer would impact the cap, but not enough to fire it. I would recock the bolt and try again and it would fire. I went and bought some new caps thinking my other ones had moisture problems or something. Same results with new caps.

Well on the range I chalked this up to poor cleaning and when I returned home gave it a GOOD cleaning and oiling. I didnt see anything that was causing the bolt to hang up or rob energy from the firing pin. Regardless I went to great effort to prepare my rifle for our ML season (I only get to hunt a single season and its only 7 days long... so every moment counts!). I made sure the bolt was fine, I even cleaned very carefully inside of the firing pin where it strikes the cap to make sure there was nothing to "absorb" shock. I then scrubbed and cleaned around the nipple to make sure caps were seating properly. Satisfied the gun was good to go, I loaded up and headed for the hills and the season opener.

Well the hunt in and of itself is another story but to keep on the subject, I ran into a nice buck about mid season. I had it at 50 yards broadside, I raised my rifle, sure of the shot I squeezed the trigger and was dumfounded to hear "CLICK"! I quickly recocked the bolt just as the deer took off and tried a shot on the run as it ran through the thick brush past a clearing. The gun fired but I goofed up the shot. Frustrated at what should have been a "gimmie" shot, I reloaded (I really pushed the cap on extremely hard with my finger to eliminate the hammer not firing it) and started the verification of hit or miss by looking for sign. There was none and I saw the deer a short time later 500 yards away completely healthy.

About 40 minutes later I ran into a nice but smaller 3x4 broadside at 40 yards which I took a shot at and this time the rifle fired perfectly (perfect hit, deer went 40 yards :)).

At home I cleaned the rifle and really gave it a looking over. I still do not understand the sudden ignition problems. My firing pin spring seems very strong, the firing pin and bolt look very clean with nothing apparent that might be causing the bolt to loose energy striking the cap. I know nipples will bulge over time after being struck repeately by a hammer, causign the cap to not seat on the nipple. I think this is the main problem...

REGARDLESS, I did some research into 209 conversion kits, and learned the Canadian kit carried by Cabelas was highly recommended. So while out there today I found the kit and it looked pretty snazzy so being a good sportsman wanting to spend money on things I may or may not need, I bought it and brought it home Smile

So my question, as I have not used them in ML's, is what 209 primer to use? I have followed threads on problems from the normal 209 shotshell primers being too powerful and people recommend using .410 primers or the new special muzzleloading primers that Remington is making. Is there any real difference between them?

What types of tools are popular to carry 209 primers? I use a T/C capper for caps but want something to aid in getting the 209 down in the small nipple area. Do you use a pick to remove them after or do they extract fairly easily?

I havent installed the kit yet but I hope to soon Smile


-DallanC
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popgun
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Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Mitchell, GA, U.S.A. (2007 pop. 191)

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a 209 Conversion kit for my 700ML Reply with quote

Hi Dallan,
The Remington 209 Kleanbore Muzzleloading Primers are the ones to use with Pyrodex or Triple Se7en powders. They are probably their old 410 primers under a muzzleloader name. They are a little less potent and there are two main advantages. First is the cleaner burn in the immediate chamber area instead of a long way down the bore that leaves the buildup that makes seating a second round harder and giving the possibility of not seating the bullet on the charge. Second is that the primer creates a more efficient burn and does not start the ball down the barrel until the pressure has had time to peak. The regular shotgun primers cause the bullet to start down the barrel early and thus the burn down along the bore giving a nasty bore. You get better accuracy out of the Kleanbore Muzzleloading primers also.
I have no idea how you guys cary the 209's around, cap & decap, because I use a Knight Disc. The disc is easy to handle, load, and remove on the Knight. Contrary to T/C advertising, I have never left the little red disc's at home that would spoil a hunt but that item is on my prehunt checklist along with all the other must haves.

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DallanC
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Joined: Jan 18, 2005
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Location: Utah

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought a 209 Conversion kit for my 700ML Reply with quote

popgun wrote:
Hi Dallan,
The Remington 209 Kleanbore Muzzleloading Primers are the ones to use with Pyrodex or Triple Se7en powders. They are probably their old 410 primers under a muzzleloader name. They are a little less potent and there are two main advantages. First is the cleaner burn in the immediate chamber area instead of a long way down the bore that leaves the buildup that makes seating a second round harder and giving the possibility of not seating the bullet on the charge. Second is that the primer creates a more efficient burn and does not start the ball down the barrel until the pressure has had time to peak. The regular shotgun primers cause the bullet to start down the barrel early and thus the burn down along the bore giving a nasty bore. You get better accuracy out of the Kleanbore Muzzleloading primers also.

Ok thanks. That reinforces what I had already read but thought I would double check opinions incase there is something else. i've seen a few people that use those little "cups" that then use a centerfire primer (25apc primers). I'll pick up some KleanBore primers.

Anyone know what they normally sell for?


Quote::
I have no idea how you guys cary the 209's around, cap & decap, because I use a Knight Disc. The disc is easy to handle, load, and remove on the Knight. Contrary to T/C advertising, I have never left the little red disc's at home that would spoil a hunt but that item is on my prehunt checklist along with all the other must haves.

Man I cap / decap ALOT during a days hunting. Typically I ride (staying on legal roads) from ridge to ridge and hike / glass. When I stop I cap the gun... when I'm ready to move I decap it. I usually cover a good 20-30 miles a day hunting out here.

I noticed this thing that looks pretty snazzy for loading.

www.cabelas.com/prod-1...723a.shtml


Guess after i install the kit I can see how hard it is to "decap" ... the cabelas conversion kit was recommended by people as its much easier to decap with than the Remington brand conversion kit... those can have their caps get "stuck".

Fairly excited to get out and give this a try. Our short ML season is over now and that includes my deer hunt. Only my wifes Rifle deer season left for the year, that starts in a couple weeks.

On a sad but side note: Very very few deer out here anymore. Places that would hold several hundred deer now only have a couple single does... or worse. Very disappointing to see Mule Deer become so rare... but on the flipside elk are out of control in population yet the F&G wont issue anymore tags as they are trying to manage for massive bulls. So a few thousand get to hunt big elk each year as populations continue to explode and the deer populations continue to crash.

Very sad and crazy situation. Anywho thanks for the ML advice Smile


-DallanC
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popgun
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Location: Mitchell, GA, U.S.A. (2007 pop. 191)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought a 209 Conversion kit for my 700ML Reply with quote

I'm trying to remember how much the primers were at walleyworld the other day. Somewhere around 4 dollars per hundred pack. That is a nice looking primer caper

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Chris Young, aka: popgun, Moderator
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jimbowsai
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a 209 Conversion kit for my 700ML Reply with quote

Dallan,

Head on down to the Walmart in PG/Lindon if you want to get some of the Kleanbore primers....they have them on clearance for $5. I picked some up but have yet to try them.
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a 209 Conversion kit for my 700ML Reply with quote

jimbowsai wrote:
Dallan,

Head on down to the Walmart in PG/Lindon if you want to get some of the Kleanbore primers....they have them on clearance for $5. I picked some up but have yet to try them.

Hey thanks for the tip. Thats on my way to work so I'll hit it today or tomorrow for sure.


-DallanC
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glockman55
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a 209 Conversion kit for my 700ML Reply with quote

Dallan, you mentioned that when you pushed the primer on real tight, it worked. I'm not familiar with that conv. kit on you 700, sounds like the cap is hard to get to. As I'm sure you realize the primer has to be on tight to stop any more misfires. Glad you scored on a nice Buck. I shoot a T/C Encore and love it. My brother just bought a CVA Optima Elite, is a copy of the Encore. about half the price. Looks to be a sweet gun. What loads are you shooting in your front stuffer? I use CCI 209 primers, 300 gr. T/C Shock Wave Sabots, with 100gr pellets.
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grafik0117
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: Bought a 209 Conversion kit for my 700ML Reply with quote

I ran across this remington 700ml 209 conversion kit and replacement nipple here www.muzzleloadingbulle...n_kit.html the nipple can deform after being struck alot and needs to be replaced every so often to prevent misfires, this site also mentions a variflame adapter that improves accuracy.
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