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hearing protection
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Grey_Wolf
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Joined: Aug 06, 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject: hearing protection Reply with quote

Hi all. I'm looking for some input on electronic hearing protection for shooting. I have a cheap pair of Caldwell but want to up grade. I was looking at the Walker behind the ear kind but thought they might be too heavy to wear for an extended period and may flop around a bit like some of the blue tooth headsets I've had for my phone. What about the compression rating? Is there that much difference between the ones that say their NRR is 22 to the one that says 27? And just to head off the smart guys here - you know who you are - I know the difference is 5 but is there an appreciable or noticeable difference to your ear?

I've looked at a bunch on line both behind the ear and muffs but don't know anyone that has these. I like the idea of the compression for loud noise as well as the enhancement for quieter sounds. Not having to take them off to talk at the range is an appealing idea as well as maybe hearing that deer sneaking in past my stand.

Thanks for your input
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slimjim
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Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: hearing protection Reply with quote

Grey_Wolf

I use Howard Leight Impact Sport electronic earmuffs.

www.natchezss.com/howa...rmuff.html

They do what I need and I can wear them for hours while I hunt. I also like being able to hear the impact of the bullet when I'm hunting.

I would not use a behind the ear. I have not tried these for shooting but I have tried them for noise cancelling on airplanes and they are not as effective as ear cups - not by a long shot.

I'm actually on my second pair of Howard Leight Impact Sport electronic earmuffs. The first set had one side go out after about 6 years of use. My son gave them to me saying they use them in his army operations. I still use this first pair when I go to the range but wear the new ones when I hunt.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:20 am    Post subject: Re: hearing protection Reply with quote

ever tried 2 empty 9 mm cases?
(Or when you have big ears: maybe .45 ACP cases?)

Don't laugh, just remember this when you're at the range and your earmuffs stayed at home..

for your info: most time I use my Peltor SportTac and they are great!
(they say you can always trust a Swede!)
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: hearing protection Reply with quote

Grey_Wolf,

I use a set of Walker electronic earmuffs and I have no problems with them and find them reasonably comfortable (well as comfy as earmuffs can be). The only whinge I initially had about them was they pick up the wind when turned up and the noise annoyed the hell outa me...until I put a piece of foam over each mic.

My mate uses the Howard Speight electronics and he swears by them. I got the idea of the foam over the mic from his muffs...they have it as standard.

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Azar
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Joined: Jan 04, 2010
Posts: 273
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: hearing protection Reply with quote

Grey_Wolf wrote:
Is there that much difference between the ones that say their NRR is 22 to the one that says 27? And just to head off the smart guys here - you know who you are - I know the difference is 5 but is there an appreciable or noticeable difference to your ear?

Yes, very much so. Decibels are based on a logarithmic and not a linear scale. Each level of NRR rating makes a bigger difference than you may at first assume. I've used a pair of Howard Leight 29 NRR rated muffs for years and personally would only go a higher rating. I do not care for anything in the low 20's at all. Which is why I have not yet gone to any of the electronic muffs. Their passive filtering of loud sounds usually ends at about a NRR of 25 or so...

From: www.coopersafety.com/e...-reduction

How does NRR change decibels of exposure?

"When hearing protection is worn, your level of exposure to noise is based on the NRR rating of the protection device being used. Keep in mind, however, that while the NRR is measured in decibels, the hearing protector being used does not reduce the surrounding decibel level by the exact number of decibels associated with that protector’s NRR. For example, if you are at a rock concert where the level of noise exposure is 100 dB and you are wearing earplugs with an NRR 33dB, your level of exposure would not be reduced to 67 dB. Instead, to determine the actual amount of decibel deduction applied (when decibels are measured dBA which is the most common), you take the NRR number (in dB), subtract seven, and then divide by two. Given the previous example, your noise reduction equation would look like the following: (33-7)/2 = 13. This means that if you are at a rock concert with a level of noise exposure at 100 dB and you are wearing a hearing protector with an NRR 33 dB, your new level of noise exposure is 87 dB. If you are wearing a product with an NRR of 27 it would deduct 10 decibels (27-7/2=10)."

Firearms are often given a decibel rating of 140 dB. Using this information we can see the difference between muffs offering 27 NRR and 22 NRR.

NRR 27: 140 dB - ((27-7)/2) = 130 dB
NRR 22: 140 dB - ((22-7)/2) = 132.5 dB

While 2.5 dB reduction does not seem like much it is actually nearly double the amount of protection (remember, logarithmic scale). Every +3dB is a doubling of the volume/intensity of the sound.

Sorry to nerd out a bit there...
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Grey_Wolf
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Joined: Aug 06, 2015
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: hearing protection Reply with quote

Slim - I looked at a pair of them and was thinking of buying them off of Amazon.ca but they could not ship to Canada. I was wondering about that with the behind the ear ones too. I have some hearing loss (as well as tinnitus) already so wanting to preserve what I have and hoping the sound enhancing will help when hunting.

Aloy - guess I could use this as an excuse to buy a 9mm! So I can have a couple empty cases. A lot of reviews on the Peltor say the headband is weak and breaks often particularly in colder weather. Don't know what your weather is like but thinking that -20 C wouldn't be good for them. I was really interested in them before reading that. Have you had any issues with the headband?

Vince - this is where I'm at now, Walkers. Metal headbands, decent reviews, in the price range... I have a cheap pair of Caldwell and I get that wind noise too - very annoying. Looking a t two sets there one has blue tooth connection which is interesting. The Peltor offers one with blue tooth as well but worried about the headband. Because of the tinnitus I like to have some music on - it kind of helps. At least I can hear something other than that damned ringing all the time.

Anybody have an idea on the technical stuff about the noise reduction rating(NRR)? Wondering if it is worth it to spend the extra dollars on a set that has a NRR of 27 or go with the cheaper ones at NRR of 20? Hmm maybe answered my own question in the reply to Slim....
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stovepipe
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Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: hearing protection Reply with quote

My sis is an Audiologist- has 2 clinics in Montana!
I get custom plugs made for run-n-gun (USPSA S/S Div.), shotgun sports etc. as Action Pistol is too demanding for me with cans on.

For E-muffs/hi-power I prefer Walkers Razor Game Ears. Sometimes I'll put foamies on under the Walkers in case I have to hustle to another array with my rifle- that way I can slip them off for the dash or a snack break and not get sweaty, wipe them out or whatever and not get yelled at by the RO. Love my Walkers. I have a narrow little bean, I need something that's not bulky, etc. or going to lift off when I weld my cheek to the comb. Don't even know I have them on. The On/Off/Volume knob is firm, sweet and don't move during recoil and back-blast from brakes and it wont turn on by accident in the range bag. I THRASH mine. Batteries last forever too. CHEAP too. Amazing product.

Just get these.....



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Grey_Wolf
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Joined: Aug 06, 2015
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: hearing protection Reply with quote

Azar wrote:
Grey_Wolf wrote:
Is there that much difference between the ones that say their NRR is 22 to the one that says 27? And just to head off the smart guys here - you know who you are - I know the difference is 5 but is there an appreciable or noticeable difference to your ear?

Yes, very much so. Decibels are based on a logarithmic and not a linear scale. Each level of NRR rating makes a bigger difference than you may at first assume. I've used a pair of Howard Leight 29 NRR rated muffs for years and personally would only go a higher rating. I do not care for anything in the low 20's at all. Which is why I have not yet gone to any of the electronic muffs. Their passive filtering of loud sounds usually ends at about a NRR of 25 or so...

From: www.coopersafety.com/e...-reduction

How does NRR change decibels of exposure?

"When hearing protection is worn, your level of exposure to noise is based on the NRR rating of the protection device being used. Keep in mind, however, that while the NRR is measured in decibels, the hearing protector being used does not reduce the surrounding decibel level by the exact number of decibels associated with that protector’s NRR. For example, if you are at a rock concert where the level of noise exposure is 100 dB and you are wearing earplugs with an NRR 33dB, your level of exposure would not be reduced to 67 dB. Instead, to determine the actual amount of decibel deduction applied (when decibels are measured dBA which is the most common), you take the NRR number (in dB), subtract seven, and then divide by two. Given the previous example, your noise reduction equation would look like the following: (33-7)/2 = 13. This means that if you are at a rock concert with a level of noise exposure at 100 dB and you are wearing a hearing protector with an NRR 33 dB, your new level of noise exposure is 87 dB. If you are wearing a product with an NRR of 27 it would deduct 10 decibels (27-7/2=10)."

Firearms are often given a decibel rating of 140 dB. Using this information we can see the difference between muffs offering 27 NRR and 22 NRR.

NRR 27: 140 dB - ((27-7)/2) = 130 dB
NRR 22: 140 dB - ((22-7)/2) = 132.5 dB

While 2.5 dB reduction does not seem like much it is actually nearly double the amount of protection (remember, logarithmic scale). Every +3dB is a doubling of the volume/intensity of the sound.

Sorry to nerd out a bit there...

Awesome. No need to apologise that is something that I didn't know, newed3ed to know and what I was hoping to learn. Excellent information. I was leaning toward the higher rating just cause I have trouble already and that confirms it.

Stovepipe - thanks. I wish I could afford the custom in the ear type but it's just too much out of my range. Was looking at the Walker behind the ear and aside from not thinking they would sit good while moving I discovered today that the quoted price is for one unit, not a pair! Throw in the exchange from CDN to US and wow... I think I've settled on the Walkers.

Thanks all for your input
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Elvis
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Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7578
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:13 am    Post subject: Re: hearing protection Reply with quote

as I said elsewhere...Ive got a cheap set look just like normal earmuffs except for the small bit of foan in front of one...they are mono not stereo so I can pick up sounds but no diretion at all...one day I want to get stereo ones with adjustment between them,I think I could stand blindfolded on say a sports field and get someone to walk around talking to me,keep adjusting balance untill I can point at the direction of sound accurately....my hearing getting bad/worse as I get older so anything that ups it is great.

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Aloysius
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Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2142
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:44 am    Post subject: Re: hearing protection Reply with quote

No problems with the headband of the Peltor so far, but I don't see me going out at -20 °C either... but breaking??? mine is not plastic. The headband is metal wire with some (removable) rubber protection.
Hard to believe that they cause trouble at -20 °C. I've been to Sweden a few times and I can assure you it can be cold out there...
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Grey_Wolf
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Joined: Aug 06, 2015
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: hearing protection Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
No problems with the headband of the Peltor so far, but I don't see me going out at -20 °C either... but breaking??? mine is not plastic. The headband is metal wire with some (removable) rubber protection.
Hard to believe that they cause trouble at -20 °C. I've been to Sweden a few times and I can assure you it can be cold out there...

Yeah they say they are breaking. In the pics I saw it looks like an all plastic, all be it covered, headband. In the ratings that I read it must be at least to 50% of the negative feedback was about the headband. I usually take out the very bottom and top of the reviews and look at the ones in the middle - the 2's, 3's & 4's. These all contained some complaints about the band.

I don't often go to the range when it's that cold but, I would like to use them for hunting as my hearing isn't what it used to be (sound enhancement from the electronics should help) and it can easily be -20C in mid November hunting season or out on a January coyote shoot. I wonder if they may be constructed different (meaning better) over there?
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English Mike
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Joined: Jan 08, 2007
Posts: 1332
Location: Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: hearing protection Reply with quote

I've been using the same set of Peltor Tac6-s for 12 years now & apart from replacement cuffs & pads (I found & bought spares easily) they've had nothing done to them.
The headband on them is spring steel strip, not plastic, so I dunno if they've changed.
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Grey_Wolf
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Joined: Aug 06, 2015
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: hearing protection Reply with quote

I tried to order a Peltor from Amazon and I got a message that they couldn't ship to Canada, same happened with a couple of Walkers. Finally ordered the Walker Razor Quad Electronic Blue tooth. Can't understand why Amazon.ca would advertise an item that can't be shipped to Canada from the U.S.? Has to be that shipper only cause I ended up getting a couple that one shipper said it couldn't send but the next did. Strange...
Oh well it's all done now. Thanks all for your help!
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