HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: tims
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 1
Overall: 12624

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 339
BOT: 3
Total: 342
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Your Account
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Photo Albums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: PointBlank Ballistics
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Your Account
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Photo Albums
26: Forums
27: Photo Albums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Photo Albums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Home
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Your Account
43: Photo Albums
44: Photo Albums
45: Your Account
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Photo Albums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Photo Albums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Photo Albums
60: Home
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Your Account
66: Home
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Your Account
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Photo Albums
81: Forums
82: Home
83: Your Account
84: Forums
85: Photo Albums
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Your Account
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Home
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Statistics
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Photo Albums
104: Your Account
105: Photo Albums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Photo Albums
110: Forums
111: Home
112: News
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Your Account
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Home
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Photo Albums
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Your Account
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Your Account
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Photo Albums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Your Account
153: Photo Albums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Photo Albums
157: Photo Albums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Photo Albums
162: Your Account
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Forums
168: Forums
169: Forums
170: Forums
171: Home
172: Photo Albums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Forums
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Your Account
187: Forums
188: Photo Albums
189: Photo Albums
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Photo Albums
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Forums
198: Photo Albums
199: Home
200: Home
201: Forums
202: Forums
203: Your Account
204: Forums
205: Home
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Forums
209: Forums
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Your Account
214: Photo Albums
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Forums
218: Forums
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: Forums
224: Photo Albums
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Forums
230: Photo Albums
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Home
235: Forums
236: Forums
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Your Account
247: Forums
248: Forums
249: Forums
250: Photo Albums
251: Forums
252: Forums
253: Forums
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Your Account
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Your Account
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Forums
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Forums
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Forums
277: Forums
278: Forums
279: Forums
280: Your Account
281: Forums
282: Forums
283: Forums
284: Forums
285: Forums
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Forums
289: Forums
290: Your Account
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Forums
294: Forums
295: Forums
296: Forums
297: Forums
298: Forums
299: Home
300: Home
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: Your Account
304: Forums
305: Your Account
306: Your Account
307: Your Account
308: Forums
309: Photo Albums
310: Forums
311: Forums
312: Forums
313: Home
314: Forums
315: Forums
316: Forums
317: Forums
318: Forums
319: Forums
320: Forums
321: Forums
322: Forums
323: Forums
324: Forums
325: Forums
326: Forums
327: Forums
328: Your Account
329: Forums
330: Forums
331: Forums
332: Forums
333: Forums
334: Home
335: Forums
336: Forums
337: Photo Albums
338: Photo Albums
339: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 305
 Pictures: 2362
  · Views: 452780
  · Votes: 1310
  · Comments: 86
 

Support our Advertisers

why ??????
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

I'm betting you've got a resizing issue not a gun issue !!!

Calipers/micrometer and a headspace gauge will tell the tale !!!

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2134
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

When your brass is soft and the neck is small, it's possible that you open up the cartridge on its shoulder, making it hard to fit in the chamber.
Measure the diameter of the shoulder before and after seating the bullet.

(just trying to add an extra possibility. Because if that's the case, changing anything on the dies won't help. Reaming you neck could be the solution)
Back to top
View user's profile
English Mike
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 08, 2007
Posts: 1321
Location: Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

If that's the case, why is the fired brass taking so much effort to resize?
Have dimensions of factory ammunition & reloads been compared?
Back to top
View user's profile
Loke
Member
Member


Joined: May 13, 2013
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

I have heard of issues with PPU brass being really hard to resize. It is really hard, and has a tendency to spring back a bit after resizing so they are hard to chamber after reloading.

_________________
Life is too short to carry an ugly gun.
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10574
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Loke...I haven't had any problems with PPU cases in .308 and I load a lot of them for my "ugly" rifle.

I use a Lee Single stage cast iron "O" press for resizing and priming all my cases, both handgun and rifle.



mike\'s folder 170 (medium).jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  84.22 KB
 Viewed:  1758 Time(s)

mike\'s folder 170 (medium).jpg


_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2134
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:52 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

English Mike wrote:
If that's the case, why is the fired brass taking so much effort to resize?
Have dimensions of factory ammunition & reloads been compared?

because the inside diameter of the neck is rather small?

It's not so easy to think about things you don't see yourself. Think about how much things you do and control at the same time even without paying attention to it (example: put a new primer in, feel how much power is needed, feel with your finger to check that the primer is level while you put the brass back in the tray... and I'm sure I forget lots of things as check if the primer is not upside down, even check next primer in your primer-seater, check that the lid of the handprimerseater is still closed... and they say that men can only do 1 thing at the same time, where women can do several tasks at the same time...)
Back to top
View user's profile
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1055
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

I would check headspace. With some brass and not all brass stretching excessivley sounds like the bolt is not consistently holding the locked position when firing.

A small base die would probably fix the symptoms but you really should look at the cause. I have never taken a BLR apart but by looking at a schematic I would look for wear on the engagement surface of the fine gears of the lever and the small sprocket on the main gear that engages the bolt.

If that is jumping a tooth intermittently due to not cocking in a straight down direction the bolt could be a few 0.001's out of battery when firing causing the case to be unsupported and stretch out of tolerance at the web wear a non small base die would not reach.

Another option is to grind off the shell holder to let your current seater get lower on the case but that has risks of over sizing the neck and shoulder.

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7545
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Dawgdad...the photo is just the ducks nuts and answers a question.... it appears I may have been changing big teeth only when what I need to do is change a little tooth on wee sprocket.
the sizing issue CANT be neck area as it isnt enguaged when pressure encountered...
unfortunately my micrometer is not a flash fandangled digital one so its mm or smaller than is as accurate as I can get.
all factory loads chamber fine,no pressure needed.
If I full length resize then force shell to chamber and then eject it and load it up they fine to chamber when loaded........now that right there doesnt make sense?????? if its full length resized and we have headspace issue due to being out timing wise SHOULDNT the chamber be BIGGER/LONGER so brass should if anything be really loose???
thank you all for your imput.... will get to bottom of it sooner or later.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
RePete
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 15, 2005
Posts: 806

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:03 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Also, get yourself a headspace/chamber gauge. I have the Lyman one.

www.lymanproducts.com/...auges.html

_________________
Proud member of the WTFDTSG Club.

Stercus Accidit = Sh*t Happens in Latin.

Nice try = You Suck spelled different.
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2134
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

When headspace causes the problem, why don't you try the trick they use on the Lee Enfield .303 Br? Just take a factory round, put a small rubber O-ring on its neck, chamber the round and fire. The O-ring will hold the base of the case to the bolt and your case will be fire-formed.
Now do necksizing and reload this case and the round will exactly fit into your chamber.

My old SA-FN (in 7x64, not in 30-06 anymore) also has a headspace problem. To cure it, one should exchange the part that locks the bolt. Instead of curing the headspace, I only did necksizing and the problem is gone, no more splitting cases.
Disadvantage: my 7x64 round will not fit into another 7x64 rifle.

And when this works with a semi-auto, it should also work with a lever action. Just check that you never exceed maximum caselength to avoid to much pressure.
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:

If I full length resize then force shell to chamber and then eject it and load it up they fine to chamber when loaded........now that right there doesnt make sense??????

Perhaps forcing it to chamber is changing a dimension on the case just enough to eliminate the issue !!!

You need to eliminate your resizing process as the issue.
This is easily done by comparing measurements before and after resizing of multiple places on the body of the case, the headspace measurement and the over all length.

Don't take for granite just because you ran them through the resizing die that's not the issue.
Seen it to many times.

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
RePete
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 15, 2005
Posts: 806

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
When headspace causes the problem, why don't you try the trick they use on the Lee Enfield .303 Br? Just take a factory round, put a small rubber O-ring on its neck, chamber the round and fire. The O-ring will hold the base of the case to the bolt and your case will be fire-formed.
Now do necksizing and reload this case and the round will exactly fit into your chamber.

My old SA-FN (in 7x64, not in 30-06 anymore) also has a headspace problem. To cure it, one should exchange the part that locks the bolt. Instead of curing the headspace, I only did necksizing and the problem is gone, no more splitting cases.
Disadvantage: my 7x64 round will not fit into another 7x64 rifle.

And when this works with a semi-auto, it should also work with a lever action. Just check that you never exceed maximum caselength to avoid to much pressure.

Just remember that a lever action doesn't have the camming power of a bolt action.

_________________
Proud member of the WTFDTSG Club.

Stercus Accidit = Sh*t Happens in Latin.

Nice try = You Suck spelled different.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1055
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:

...
all factory loads chamber fine,no pressure needed.
If I full length resize then force shell to chamber and then eject it and load it up they fine to chamber when loaded........now that right there doesnt make sense?????? if its full length resized and we have headspace issue due to being out timing wise SHOULDNT the chamber be BIGGER/LONGER so brass should if anything be really loose???
thank you all for your input.... will get to bottom of it sooner or later.

Ok - This tells me you have a die/press issue. If all factory brass drops right in... It is at minimum spec size. A shell fired in this rifle should also drop in if the chamber was locked during firing. If the play in the gear teeth allow the bolt to move back you may be getting some part of the case near the web that is unsupported during firing that is too low for your normal sizing die to catch. Try a small base die that returns the cases to minimum spec all the way to the case head. You want every case to drop in like a factory case does. This is not a bench rest rifle where you just neck size to keep the brass tight in the chamber. In my experience with tight chambers and fat brass... a small base die does the job you need.

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7545
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

update...havent done stuff all as been doing stupid hours at work...... but my tiny wee brain been going overtime.
a set of small base dies will set me back $110 NZ
std dies about $70
in back of my loading cabinet is a set of lyman all american .30/06 dies....hmmm thinks my old brain.same parent case wonder if the "new dimention" .308 dies are wider?????
so took a FLR .308 case ,applied a little lube....put 06 dies in press and removed neck expander and buggamesideways it works the FLR case from about half way down the case.......
right one of you knowledegable people tell me is this to be expected????
does the 06 have same case taper and dimentions as 08 at the web area????
will have to try chambering a empty case done this way and see what happens.
have I stumbled on a poor mans small base sizer????
wouldnt be an issue to run them all through the 06 die then the 08 one at all.....

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
RePete
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 15, 2005
Posts: 806

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Look here.

www.google.ca/imgres?i...kQ9QEILTAA

and here

members.saami.org/Manu...gfield.pdf

_________________
Proud member of the WTFDTSG Club.

Stercus Accidit = Sh*t Happens in Latin.

Nice try = You Suck spelled different.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.