HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: smitty3855
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 12622

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 213
BOT: 2
Total: 215
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Your Account
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Photo Albums
09: Home
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Home
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Your Account
24: Forums
25: Home
26: Photo Albums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Your Account
35: Forums
36: Photo Albums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Photo Albums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Your Account
44: Your Account
45: Photo Albums
46: Forums
47: Your Account
48: Forums
49: Photo Albums
50: Photo Albums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Photo Albums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Your Account
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Your Account
68: Photo Albums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Your Account
73: Your Account
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Your Account
79: Your Account
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Home
85: Forums
86: Photo Albums
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Your Account
92: Forums
93: Photo Albums
94: Forums
95: Your Account
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Your Account
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Your Account
105: Forums
106: Your Account
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Photo Albums
113: Your Account
114: Your Account
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Your Account
118: Home
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Your Account
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Your Account
125: Forums
126: Photo Albums
127: Your Account
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Photo Albums
131: Forums
132: Your Account
133: Forums
134: Home
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Forums
149: Photo Albums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Your Account
156: Forums
157: Photo Albums
158: Your Account
159: Forums
160: Your Account
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Your Account
165: Forums
166: Your Account
167: Forums
168: Forums
169: Photo Albums
170: Forums
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Photo Albums
175: Photo Albums
176: Your Account
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Your Account
182: Your Account
183: Forums
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Photo Albums
187: Forums
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Your Account
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Forums
198: Your Account
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Forums
203: Forums
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Forums
209: Home
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Home
  BOT:
01: Your Account
02: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 305
 Pictures: 2361
  · Views: 446049
  · Votes: 1310
  · Comments: 86
 

Support our Advertisers

AR Feeling the need
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3311
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

StoveP you can sell it, you just can't make it with the intent of selling it. The English language is elegant that way. Sell it to a friend or hand it down to your family, don't know if a gun shop would want it but actually all they have to do is put a serial number on it and record it in their books.


Suz

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 3546
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Suz,
The builder has to pay for the registration of the serial number when it is transfered.
Doesn't matter who it is transfered to or how. The $200 tax is required to transfer the firearm if it was manufactured after a specific date.
I had to look at the ATFE site and go through a couple of pages to find it hidden toward the bottom of a page. If you make a phone call they will cite it for you without the chase.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
dhc4ever
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 2360
Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:59 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Oh this just gets better and better, you Ba#$!@*&.
You can build your own semi auto in exotic or common calipers, doesnt need a S/N unless you sell it?
And the gubbermint dont care?

We need a progrom against politicians, journos and inner city latte sipping anti gun intellectuals.

Now going for a beer and a good cry.......

_________________
Pete

Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics..............
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13634
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:11 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Pete whose crying into his beer wrote:
...Now going for a beer and a good cry.......

Me too mate... Sad Crying or Very sad Sad Crying or Very sad

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

dhc4ever wrote:
Oh this just gets better and better, you Ba#$!@*&.
You can build your own semi auto in exotic or common calipers, doesnt need a S/N unless you sell it?
And the gubbermint dont care?

[[[We need a progrom against politicians, journos and inner city latte sipping anti gun intellectuals.]]]

Now going for a beer and a good cry.......

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel! Laughing

+1000
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10568
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Come to America dhc4ever...We could use a few good Aussies here.

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Suzanne wrote:
StoveP you can sell it, you just can't make it with the intent of selling it. The English language is elegant that way. Sell it to a friend or hand it down to your family, don't know if a gun shop would want it but actually all they have to do is put a serial number on it and record it in their books.


Suz


(no disrespect Suz.... Very Happy ...but here goes)

It's a "wobble law". Poorly worded. Lots of room for the ATF to slap your hand and make you life pretty miserable. If you made it, has no S#, just keep it or destroy it. If you want to sell it? Tons of hoops, like a normal DROS has, esp. one with no S# post 1968.

Sounds nit-picky but....that's how I roll and I won't advocate doing anything that may or may not skirt a law.

How I read the laws?

1- I will not sell or exchange one without a S#. Nor should anyone. Period.

2- Also- when machining the lower, YOU must do it yourself, no "straw machinist" for hire, etc., that's the whole thing with building your own. Period.

That's how I see this whole thing. I'm not alone!
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10568
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Hell...If I still lived in the USSR of C I would have to serialize my "spit wad shooter" and my "clothespin bean shooter".

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

They banned straws, rubber bands, clothes pins and light bulbs!

NEVER going back. Ever.

(almost forgot)

STUPID LIBERALS!!!! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10568
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

ROFL Me 'neither!!

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Mornin' Bushboss!

Barns mucked out, 3'rd pot on the brew, tractor will be serviced by lunch.

Then I'll go rat whompin in the barn with the .22 and some #12. If there's a pitchfork leanin against the door, I'm in there huntin (and patching .45cal holes- since when do rats climb walls 7 feet up??? Geez!), so you and that hog leg stay out!
Back to top
View user's profile
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3311
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Calling the local ATF office in my state to clarify. He said that the intent is the important part of the law. He gave an example of if you build one gun this year and sell it next year that's probably not built with the intent to sell. If you build three guns and sell them, you're probably manufacturing with the intent to sell. If you build a gun and sell it then build the exact same gun, that may be intent. Anyway, he said there's no number, its all arbitrary and their opinion.

With regards to marking;
The agent I spoke with said he couldn't find any information where an individual who manufactures a firearm is required to mark it. I asked him about the marking it (should it be sold or lawfully transferred in the future) with regards to how an FFL would enter an unmarked weapon in their books. He said they would enter it similar to a gun made before 1968 when serial numbers weren't required and that my name would be listed as the manufacturer.

So, according to the agent, I can manufacture a gun for personal use. I can later at some point in the future decide I no longer want it and sell or trade it (so long as the intent when building it is NOT to sell it). I am not required to mark it in any way before sale


Just to make me more secure about the subject I went to the ATF website and found this;

When does a receiver need to have markings and/or serial numbers?
Receivers that meet the definition of a “firearm” must have markings, including a serial number. See 27 CFR § 478.92 (Firearm manufacturers marking requirements).

And if you go to the above mentioned section of the regs and read them they're referring to Licensed Manufacturers of Firearms. The entire thing is worded that way. I'm not a licensed manufacturer.

What is ATF doing in regard to people making firearms?
There are no federal restrictions on an individual making a firearm for personal use, as long as it does not violate the GCA or National Firearms Act (NFA)......(which is all about machineguns, barrel lengths, silencers)

Can an individual make large quantities of firearms and sell them?
If an individual is “engaged in the business” (defined below) as a manufacturer or seller of firearms then that person must obtain a federal firearms license. In addition, manufacturers have a variety of specific responsibilities under the Gun Control Act, such as including a serial number and other markings on all firearms.

Under 18 U.S.C. 921 (a)(21)(A), the term “engaged in the business” means— as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured.

. Can anyone make firearms and sell them?
With certain exceptions, and subject to any state law that might apply, as long as an individual is not prohibited from possessing a firearm, he or she can make a firearm for personal use. If an individual wants to manufacture and sell firearms, he or she is required to obtain a license, and mark each firearm manufactured in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92. [18 U.S.C. 923(i), 26 U.S.C. 5822]

State laws take precedent over federal laws in every matter. Typically there are no state laws that are more lax than federal laws. If there isn’t a specific state law, federal law is the unwritten state law.

So it's like I said, as long as you don't intend on manufacturing for sale, then it's another ball game of licensing and marking. After a few years of use and I'm tired of it and want to sell it, I see no written regulation that prohibits it or even mentions it. All of the marking regulations are aimed at licensed manufacturers, not unlicensed hobbyists.

If I were you and felt nervous about it, and I wanted to sell it, you could always disassemble the lower, keep the parts and upper for sale.


Suz

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 3546
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Ok, I had the "business of manufacture for profit" part screwed up in my head I guess.
Suz, it looks like you are correct. Thanks for your diligence!
Now I have to buy some tooling for my lathe. Smile

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3311
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Sorry Paulie it's in my nature to poke everyone in the back so they sit up straight (and I know it's annoying). Just didn't want people to think it's a risky proposition cause it's really fun to ream out a lower and be able to use it. I did a couple of the plastic ones and used my drill press with an x-y vice and milling bit. Don't know if it would work on aluminum very well but the plastic lowers are good enough for me. The place I got them from had a bunch of factory seconds or over-runs and they cost about $25 or $30 ea. so I couldn't pass it up.


Suz

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10568
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Hi Mom....

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.