Do tell.

Bushmaster wrote:

Vince is an expert on rifle bolts...

I can see I'm never going to live this down. Yeah, an expert of sorts, but not in knowing the bolt itself, more a case of not remembering to pick the damn things up when going hunting. Only made that mistake once though.

I didn't say anything...Just mentioned you knew all about rifle bolts,

More Mr. Bushmaster?




Suz


need some
salt too.....

Suzanne wrote:

More Mr. Bushmaster? Suz need some salt too.....

Here ya go Suz, in all my embarrassed glory mate...

I'm a Total Klutz

Have been away and just got around to reading the complete thread. All my rifle cases are sized to give a slight resistance to lock up of the bolt. This includes rimmed cases such as the 35 Remington. I suspect, but do not know for sure, that the bolt face and case are a close fit. I wish I could say that I do this to improve accuracy but the truth is I do it to reduce case stretch and therefore hopefully increase brass life.

While I have some premium brass, most of mine is regular stuff such as Remington, Winchester and some military surplus. I tried several annealing methods but finally gave it up as It was just too difficult to be consistent.

OK, so now I am becoming really confused and have begun questioning everything I have learned in earning two advanced degrees in metallurgy and physics, although Dee would tell you that confusion about people is not a new condition and sometimes she’s surprised that I can even breathe when talking to them.

I have been advised by an obviously highly experienced, educated, and knowledgeable contributor to HN that upon ignition of a cartridge’s percussion cap’s soft steel face by the massive .050” to .080” diameter firing pin that the spring loaded massive firing pin will hold the cartridge in place and that case under up to 60,000 PSI will immediately expand diametrically and not longitudinally to form fit the chamber and prevents any gas escape and any possible rearward movement or stretch of the cartridge and that under no circumstance could the base of the cartridge come into contact with the face of the bolt and therefore the cartridge could not assume any out of square condition from the bolt face.

So, I am curious about why we have bolt handles that lock in place and LOCKING LUGS on the cartridge end of the bolt and would really like somebody to tell me why rifle manufacturers go to so much expense to create a bolt that is immobile to rearward movement, I’d rather they spend those dollars on better barrels and better barrel action interfaces.

Heck, if the cartridge form fits to the chamber and the cartridge only stretches towards the bore then we don’t need a bolt of any kind and could just use a nail to poke the cap. I am also curious about whether I should continue to believe anything that Hornady has to say about cartridge ballistics, reloading, or anything else they sell. They are obviously wrong too, and if they are wrong about this I would question any other advice they proffer about reloading.

So, since I am so ignorant about, metallurgy, physics, ballistics and rifles I feel I need to stop shooting, hunting and reloading, heck if I don’t understand the basics I could be dangerous to an innocent bystander. Please somebody explain all this to me.

If you re-read the info more closely, you will see that the case moves rearward at the moment of bullet movement causing an intense thrust against the bolt-face. Note that the bullet is in motion at that point. The lugs are to prevent the bolt from becoming part of the shooter's face.

But then one can always make the case that simple logic proves that airplanes can't fly.

OOOooooo well done Lester!! You're not just a fisherman you're a long-liner. Reminds me of a conversation I had with our office's retirement administrator. We got a copy of how our asset allocations were distributed and I noticed our highest percentage was in bonds. Questions? Yeah, doesn't the present low interest rate (in our banking system) tend to devalue the dollar? Yes (he said with tons of explanation about dollar valuation). So why are we heavily vested in bonds? Well, I wouldn't call it heavy or strong, we're evening it out in the long run, being conservative as we go through the year... and blah blah blah... The thing is, that's my retirement money, I want aggressive, not conservative income. Did we make a killing this year on stocks? Well no we had a strategy for a falling economy that we used two years ago and this year it just didn't turn out that way. So why do we pay you to manage our retirement?

I made more on the stock market this year than I have in the last 5 years and this guy is so behind.....it's his freekin job, nothing else, and it's our money slowly slipping through the cracks....my boss is a dunderhead and needs to educate himself on investing.

Sorry for the rant Lester, just wanted to swab your bruises, there are some that need mental hearing aids and some that have no batteries at all. We can only hope they don't end up with us eternally. Now that would just suk.



Suz

SSLover, Thanks partner, but I don't need to re-read anything. What you explained was my original point EXACTLY. But, some folks don't believe it.

Thanks Suz.

Regarding your retirement fund, I took everything I had out of the control of banks and fund managers several years ago, thankfully I only lost about a third during our economic debacle.

So let's say (hypothetically) that I'm a fund manager and I have 10,000 folks depending on me to manage their money but only one person who signs my check and gives me bonuses for placating the 10,000 who are at my whim, who shall I be faithful to? You cannot depend on others for your future, it is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors. Sorry about your Boss.

Yeah wish I could do the same, but we have the boss paying matching funds to what we give, along with profit sharing so you can't beat that, but once I decide to quit or "retire" I'm very prepared to invest. Anyone who's thinkin about retirement better be well versed in the stock market. It's easy to do and your motivation is money.....more money!

Suz

I'm with ya Lester!That cartridge movement idea bothers me and I have been loading for (fingers and toes)45 years now!If that is correct-then why don't I see similar issues with my ruger #1 -25ought?Seems to me that It locks up tight against base of cartridge,and I was taught that headspacing on bottleneck cartridges was from base to shoulder,and magnums was from belt to shoulder -or was that base to belt,on belted magnums,or was that -my brain is starting to throb-must see nurse at local bar for medicine...........................

Just to help with your brain throb, TRBLSHTR. I use the shoulder of a .30-30 (mod 94) to head space on rather then the case rim.

All my rifles (the ones that use bottle-neck cases) are kept long enough to headspace on the shoulder. It doesn't matter if it is a bolt or a break-open action, they all get the same treatment.

The case body and neck always expand to the chamber wall but after they are glued to the wall by the pressure then the case head moves rearward (if there is any space) which stretches the brass lengthwise. That is what causes case head separation. If there is a slight "crush-fit" to the case in the chamber then it has no place to expand. (unless there is enough pressure to cause the chamber to expand) With that very slight crush-fit my brass will outlast me. I can't swear it increases accuracy but in conjunction with a partially sized neck I will swear that it increases accuracy in my guns with me shooting them.

How do you size a rimmed case on the shoulder, what's the method? I was thinking about doing that on my rolling block rifle because of the scarcity of cases for 8x58rD, I have inconsistent rim thicknesses. If I could bump the shoulder up then I could headspace on the shoulder. Don't know how to do it though.


Suz