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Reversed Bullets
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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MacD
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

While looking up some information on anti-tank rifles l came across a reference to WW1 soldiers reversing bullets in their cases to give better penetration of the armoured vehicles of that era. Well I found lots of internet chat and some more serious discussion on the practise. Now here is my question. Has anyone tried it and particularly with revolver ammo and cast bullets? I mean for target shooting not tanks lol:-).

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

While I doubt the effectiveness of this, I really interested in finding out the theory of how it works.

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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

Years ago a gun writer ran and article on reversing .38 Special 148 grain wadcutters to make them more effective. Have not heard of that again until this post. I never tried it, but instead loaded a heavier 168 grain bullet. All the best...
Gil

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

I heard of guys doing it with rifles when shooting at subsonic speeds as you get little expansion with a conventional projectile but being backward gives you a bigger met-plate and by flying teardrop like, the projectile SHOULD stabilize more easily. we are talking 220grn .30 cal loads in small cases here.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

Yup, if you are shooting subsonics having center of gravity forward would help to stabilize.
OTOH with proper twist this would happen anyway.
Then again, having the CG at the back of a subsonic would promote tumbling on impact, which is a desirable outcome if you are hunting.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

With the exception of a hollow based wad cutter reversed to make a hollow point, what advantage could be gained by reversing a handgun bullet?

I have tried reversing HBWCs in the .38 Special but that was 30+ years ago and I can't remember the results. I'm guessing that it wasn't that spectacular or I'd remember it. You know, I may actually still have a few of those around someplace...


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...sed_bullet

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

I believe Aloys has shot bullets backwards. I remember reading that on our forum.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

It would be interesting to try it in the bullet trap to see how they fare,

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MacD
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

It would be interesting to try it in the bullet trap to see how they fare,

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

Using the bullet backwards makes it more stable on impact and it will penetrate further. I have used HPBT bullets backwards on targets and there is no significant change in group size or point of impact out to 200 yards.

I have to admit that I tried the HBWC backwards in my 357 and I even crimped a gas check to them. What they do to a plastic milk carton is complete destruction with the water hitting the shooter more than anything else. I tested them in my Fackler box and gave up on the idea. while the bullets literally explode on impact they only penetrated 4 inches - stopping before the third bag was burst. The bullet just doesn't stay together (soft lead, swagged bullets) long enough to be lethal to anything bigger than an alley cat.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

MacD, tell me what bullet it is and I can give a good estimate on how it will react. An all copper bullet will have no expansion unless it hits bone. A lead-core bullet that has no copper on the base, e.g., Partition, will likely spit the base out and fragment. A flat base will have more terminal shock than a boat-tail. I'd have to test to determine if they tumble or not. I'm guessing they would be more stable with the pointie end aft and less likely to tumble because the center of mass would be forward of the "aerodynamic" center. This has been my experience with Berger VLDs in .277. They jackets are too thick and maintain structural integrety. They yaw on impact, turn 180 degrees, and penetrate tail first.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:13 am    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

SJ, you have the memory of an elephant or at least of a horse...

In handguns I never tried it, but some people do it so the jacket of the bullet will 'scrape' the lead out of the barrel. I don't have positiv feelings about that method...

And in rifles it's more often done. It originated from hunting with army FMJ rounds. An FMJ is not so good for hunting 'normal' animals that don't need bone-crushers. So to improve the ability to transfert energy from the bullet to the body of the hunted animal, they took such a militairy round, pulled the bullet and put it back upside-down. Altough I didn't try it on animals yet, I still like the idea. Groupe-size at 100 m will be 3-4 times bigger, but that's not a problem for short distance bush-hunting.
Look at 2 things that makes this method interesting: the price of a FMJ in a military caliber and second: the increased energy-transfert when going reduced to subsonic speeds or near subsonic speed (and don't want to buy a mould or don't want to cast).
Roedeer females and kits ended yesterday, so I have to wait till the 1st of May to try it on live-animals... maybe I can try it on crows with a FMJ in .224...

but I have to be carefull as I've heard a story of a male dog that died because he tried too much and too often...

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MacD
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

These are the bullets I am considering. They are L-R : 138gr, .358 for 38 spl/mag, 230gr, .452 lead and then copper plated for 45 colt/ACP. I also have some jacketed, open base FP conicals in. 452 but felt they were pretty close enough to SWC.



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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

MacD, when you reverse these bullets in a handgun I think you get feeding-problems and only very little extra advantages. And be carefull when you go shooting plates or bowlingpins because they might react as a wadcutter and return to the shooter...
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Reversed Bullets Reply with quote

+1 on Aloy's comment

also,

MacD wrote:
Has anyone tried it and particularly with revolver ammo and cast bullets? I mean for target shooting not tanks lol:-).

MacD, I had to go back to the beginning to check why you wanted to do this again. If it's for target shooting, then I would not expect any improvement. You will also have less chamber volume which would negatively affect chamber pressure in a rifle, maybe not a pistol.

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