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What gives on the ogive??
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: What gives on the ogive?? Reply with quote

Yeah, I use ogive to refer to the point on the profile of the bullet that first engages the rifling. In your example the place on the tip of the bullet that first has a diameter of .237. We mean the same thing. What is the name you give that reference point?

The shape of that profile will cause a seater die to have problems if it is too steep like a lot of long range bullets (Secant Ogive) the tip bottoms out befor the stem reaches the profile of he bullet. I have friends that have customized the seater dies for a specific bullet shape.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: What gives on the ogive?? Reply with quote

Yes.... we are talking about the same thing !!!
I've always considered this reference point as part of the bearing surface or body. Most would probably argue it's part of the ogive.

I guess the confusion I've seen in the past deals more with the seating stem and it's point of contact on the ogive, believing this was the point of measurement.

I've often wondered why seating dies weren't designed to seat from the bore diameter, this would eliminate the issues associated with different profile designs and the need for custom seating stems.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: What gives on the ogive?? Reply with quote

Chambered, there arer some guns with shorter magazines that might limit your COAL to less than such a seater would provide with long spitzers. The magazine sometimes trumps any other preferences. I know a few people who single load for that very reason.

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Paul
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fnuser
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: What gives on the ogive?? Reply with quote

"and the need for custom seating stems." There ya go.

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: What gives on the ogive?? Reply with quote

That may be an idea for an after-market accessory An "Ogive Seater" eliminates the need for any other seater can be yours for $19.99! But wait there is more! You also get........

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: What gives on the ogive?? Reply with quote

Paul, I understand what your saying and I agree but the only times I've seen it happen was when, for example, using modern spitzers in a Hornet, it was originally designed to use somewhat round nose short ogive bullets.

The only time I've ever seen it with factory ammo was with Nosler's 221FB loading. Here again that's due to the fact the Ballistic Tip bullet is longer than the standard bullets the 221 was designed around.
On this particular factory load the bearing surface of the bullet is below the case mouth.

I'm by no means trying to say I'm an expert on the issue, only that of what I've experienced.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: What gives on the ogive?? Reply with quote

fnuser wrote:
That may be an idea for an after-market accessory An "Ogive Seater" eliminates the need for any other seater can be yours for $19.99! But wait there is more! You also get........

wtf Maybe we can get the Sham-Wow guy to promote it !!!

Ok.... I'll reword it !!!
When whomever originally designed the first seating dies for those of us that reload, I wonder why they didn't design them to seat from bore diameter ???

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Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: What gives on the ogive?? Reply with quote

The diameter of the seating die that houses the bullet is close to the actual bullet diemeter in a good seating die. That helps to hold the bullet concentric to the case mouth but it also limits the diameter of the seating plug. I have modified my seatin plugs so they don't hit the tip of the bullets but it is still far from where the "bearing" portion blends with the ogive.
Maybe a two piece spring loaded neck bushing/ seater plug could be designed but it would be expensive to manufacture and a problem to keep clean.

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: What gives on the ogive?? Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:
Yes.... we are talking about the same thing !!!
I've always considered this reference point as part of the bearing surface or body. Most would probably argue it's part of the ogive.

I guess the confusion I've seen in the past deals more with the seating stem and it's point of contact on the ogive, believing this was the point of measurement.

I've often wondered why seating dies weren't designed to seat from the bore diameter, this would eliminate the issues associated with different profile designs and the need for custom seating stems.


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