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Honest groups
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms

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Gil Martin
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 1651
Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:58 pm    Post subject: Honest groups Reply with quote

Most of my groups at the range are 1", 2" or 3" or more depending on what I am shooting and if it is a good day. A chap come up to me when I was shooting a .50 flintlock at 100 yards today and asked about my group size. The answer was that I ran out of elevation and was shooting a foot low on the target. He asserted that he shoots a T/C and gets 3/8" groups all the time. I told him that I did not believe him. He got agitated and stormed off. I have never seen a muzzleloader shot that tight.

Why do some people claim tiny groups that would impress a benchrest shooter when it appears to be pure bull? Another fellow said he shoots 5/8" groups all the time with a shot out '98 Mauser with iron sights using military ammo. I am confident that more small groups are shot at the keyboard than are ever shot at the range. All the best...
Gil

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Blaine
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Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: 260
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Honest groups Reply with quote

I hear you Gil....I only had one gun that shot better than 3/4" group @ 100 yds and that was NOT a muzzle loader Wink It was a Remington 700 BDL in 22-250 with a Timney trigger, 12X scope , hand loads, and sand bags in a prone position. I'm getting back into hand loading again now and I expect to get my Savage 110 in 270 down to a sub 1 MOA. On a good day I can get a 3/4" group with it now (using factory loads) but that is with a bench, sand bags and holding my tongue just right Wink I have a T/C Encore handgun with 243 & 308 barrels that I'm loading for now and I hope to get them both to sub 1 MOA as well. As I get older, my groups open up a bit.... Embarassed go figure........ Crying or Very sad not sure if it's the eyes, the nerves, or a combination.

Blaine

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Gil Martin
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 1651
Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Honest groups Reply with quote

Blaine,
I picked up a used Savage 110 in .30-06 and have been running handloads through it. It wears a 3x-9x scope and did shoot an honest 1 MOA group with it.

The very best groups I ever shot were with a .22-250 Remington 700 using factory ammo and a .243 Voere Mauser commercial rifle using reloads. The aggravating thing about the .22-250 is I never know what powder was in the factory ammo and was never able to get as tight a group with reloads. That happens.

Where are you located in Maine? I spent a lovely vacation there back in 1998 and enjoyed Portland, Ogunquit, Old Orchard Beach and other places along the coast. All the best...
Gil

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DallanC
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Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3183
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: Honest groups Reply with quote

My .22-250 is one spooky rifle. The hotter the load the tigher the groups seem to get. Shocked

I agree with the overall topic though... and I'll admit to being a little guilty of it. Not that I havent gotten .25" groups with my .22-250 (I have twice), but CONSISTANTLY being able to do it... well now thats another thing. I know the rifle can do it but more often than not its me the shooter who introduces the error.

I once with people watching, shot a .6" 3 shot group with my .50 cal Muzzleloader... I have as of yet, to even come close to that kind of accuracy with it since then. On average I shoot 2" groups and thats plenty good for a frontstuffer. When people ask me "how good does that gun shoot?" well I usually say 2" but I have told people about the .6 group I shot Wink

Personally Gil, I think you could start making some spare $$$ by saying "I got $50 on me, prove it" Twisted Evil Just be careful though... I lost a crisp $100 bill when I was 14 to my dad who was bragging about tight groups... I said "prove it" and I'll be damned if that old guy didnt just prove it. Embarassed


-DallanC
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Blaine
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Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: 260
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Honest groups Reply with quote

Thanks for the chuckle DallanC..... Laughing Gil I'm in Northern Maine and up here most folks would say you ALMOST made it into Maine when you went to Ogunquit and OOB Wink Wink We are the "REAL" Maine up here. I live in Houlton....easy to find from anywhere in the country...same directions for all. Drive east till you hit I-95 and then north till you run out of USA (it is on the Canadian border) Laughing The snow is finally starting to melt up here and soon I'll be able to get into my camp road to get to my shooting range. Very Happy ....All the best.....Blaine

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calsibley
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 317

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Honest groups Reply with quote

I have several rifles that occasionally produce sub .25" accuracy (5 at 100yds.), but that certainly doesn't make them .25" rifles. We tend to write down or memorize our best groups from a rifle, and sometimes get to thinking that the smallest group is the norm for that rifle. It makes for great ego builders, but is far from the truth. It's okay to enjoy our little fantasies so loing as we don't advertise them to others. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
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