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I need a little advice
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

If your shots from the same rifle lead up to a higher POI, than that tells me the barrel is getting warm or hot. You need to be a little more specific.

Since you said this is a single shot rifle, tell us the details!!

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

I know that during cold weather, shooting pistols or rifles, I don't even count the first five or six rounds for accuracy.
Once things get warmed up, including myself, then I get serious. Even then, shooting in cold weather, I'm shooting just for fun, and don't get too excited if I don't knock out the x ring.

Eric

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MRFixIT
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

Ominivision1 wrote:
If your shots from the same rifle lead up to a higher POI, than that tells me the barrel is getting warm or hot. You need to be a little more specific.

Since you said this is a single shot rifle, tell us the details!!


Rifle is Savage Model 12 LRPV 223 cal. 26" heavy barrel, single shot left hand port 1 in 7 twist running 75 gr BTHP match hornady, lapua case, Winchester primer 23 gr Varget, crony'd 2680ftp average,COL 2.355. I've tryed it warm, cold. I have Not got it Hot yet. I've try different powder loads all this has told me is 23gr and 23.3gr of Varget shoots not bad(.5 inch). 23.1 and 23.2 open up to an inch.

ElyBoy our range has 2 insulated building to shot from, we heat them with propane heater.
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MacD
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

Hope you solve it "Fix". Almost looks like two very different loadings. You would think a loose scope or reticule would be erratic. That is a pretty heavy barrel on that rifle so I would expect it would be less prone to significant POI changes due to warming. Parallax issues or a scope that has really tight eye relief combined with a shifting hold or cheek position might account for the consistency of each group yet the significant difference in groupings. Do you keep cheek weld and bolt hand contact between shots? I have not shot the 12 model you have but have seen it shot and the left hand port allows both which means a really consistent hold for each shot string. Put the gun down and start on a new string and your hold and/or sight picture may change from the last string but, once again, be consistent for the current one.

If you have a bench-rest that can be positioned in exactly the same location on the bench and holds the rifle firmly put a piece of masking tape on the comb at your cheek location where you get your best sight picture on your POA. Keep rest, rifle and cheek as close to exactly the same for each shot and each string using factory ammo. The results should point you to a problem with the rifle if the wide grouping is repeated (bedding, stock relief, etc). If the divergent grouping isn't repeated and you are sure it wasn't the ammo in past shootings then it seems you have either a scope issue or a holding issue or a combination of both.

Hope I have helped. I am no technical expert but this is the approach I would take. Control as many variables as possible and look for the simple problem first. Savage makes a fine rifle and the 12 you have is one of their best. If I didn't think the CFO (Da Missus) would hide my credit card afterward I would have one.

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jcruthis
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

nice post mac...i sometimes have a similar problem as mrfixit does. ill definitely try what you said there
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

very good that one is ruled out. have you checked overall lengths??? could be something in there???

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

I am with Mac, an old guy showed me how to solve parallax issues use the range on the objective bell as an estimate. turn one way while gun is in a bench rest move your head in a circle as the circle of light moves watch the cross-hairs if they stay put on the target (they will both appear to move the same) then you have the correct setting for that range if the cross-hairs move on the target (they both move but differently) it not there yet. hard to explain but easy to do.

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

Good point MacD and fnuser, hopefully this is the issue with his gun.

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MRFixIT
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

Thanks MacD and fnuser. i'll try both on Sunday weather permitting

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:20 am    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

so swap the scope over from your tack driver for a range sesion and see if you getrid of the double group. it is one more off the list of possibles.

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MRFixIT
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

I was thinking about that Elvis. My tack driver (axis) has a cheap $100 6x24 tasco would hate to think it's better than a $400 10x40 sightmark, but stranger thing have happened. It's coming with me only way to see if it is the scope. Thx

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

mate I have heard of very big branded scopes failing. I even had a brand new scope fall apart on me at the range so stranger things have happened.

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MRFixIT
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

Ok made it to the range this morning. It was all in how I was/am looking through the scope. I wasn't keeping the same eye relief. Thanks MacD for the tape on the stock idea. Thanks everyone for all your help Smile

top target is 15 shots at 100 meters. Bottom target, different eye relief each shot


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MacD
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

Glad it helped. Moving your scope back or forward while you hold the same cheek weld will help you find its mid-point for relief on the scope. This helps reduce the effect of different holds. Having a friend move the scope while you keep the rifle steady makes this easier.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

MRFixIT wrote:
It was all in how I was/am looking through the scope.

For this to be happening at 100 yards, would there be some paralax issue here? Is a paralax adjustment needed here to minimize dispersion?

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