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How far off the lands !!!
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:01 am    Post subject: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

This link leads to a Microsoft word document from Berger Bullets. (you need word to open it)
www.websitetoolbox.com...&id=750175

The subject of where to seat the bullet comes up often.
I thought that since this was put out by Berger themselves it would carry more clout than just somebody saying to try it.

I have to admit though, I would have never went .120 off the lands even with experimenting. ( be sure to use caution seating that deep, pressure !!!)
One must keep in mind, this deals with their VLD bullets. I would imagine that any long bullet may have similar results.
In checking this out I also discovered that the VLD is also a great hunting bullet. Hmmm !!! Might have to look at that a little closer.

Anyways, just some food for thought.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

The VLD design is an animal unto itself. While the principle of tweaking accuracy by bullet jump holds true across all firearms, I would not expect to be able to see exact results with standard bullets due to the extreme secant of the VLD ogive. The bearing surface is a long way back on that bullet and you have a large % of the length extending in the throat and rifling that never touches the barrel.

Great bullet though.


Where is Wildswalker when we need him to add to this thread?

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

I thought this topic/post would have generated some discussion!!!
It does seem to be a question that is often asked about.

Yes, the VLD design is different but the same principals still apply.
The secant ogive is also used on some Hornady bullets.
Nosler Ballistic Tips, Hornady SST, and the Barnes Tipped TSX bullets are all longer than standard bullets. IMO this type of testing just might be justified.

Anyways, like I said earlier, just food for thought!!!

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:54 am    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

With the Optimum Charge Weight and Optimum Barrel Time information I almost wonder how much the distance from the lands matters, from an accuracy stand point. I know it can matter from a pressure/safety stand point! Here recently I've been going with a seating depth that allows good function through the magazine and action. Keep in mind that my loads are not tweaked to the Nth degree, at least not yet.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:50 am    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

I’ve had the same thoughts dealing with the OCW method!!!

I have 2 rifles I plan to do some extensive work with this summer. Both will have loads developed using OCW and I plan to explore this seating depth issue a bit farther. My 6mm will get a new varmint load and a long range target load. The target load will more than likely utilize a VLD, A-max, or one of the other long sleek target bullets in the 90-100+ range. Both guns are of the single shot variety so I’ll have no magazine woes or worries.
Last summer I found a 600 yard range with in an hours drive from my home that runs some informal long range/varmint type shoots. I’m hoping its something I can get my son involved in!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:42 am    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

Distance from the rifling varies widely from rifle to rifle and bullet to bullet. Though I have usually had good luck seating the bullets to a depth not quite touching the rifling, I have also had rifles that required a generous "running start" down the chamber throat for accuracy. Chamber dimensions figure strongly into this equation. Factory throats often are a little too generous in diameter. This allows the bullet to “wobble” as it passes through the throat, causing it to be improperly aligned with the bore on contact. In such cases seating the bullet out as far as is practical may well result in increased accuracy. Custom throats are usually much tighter. It is not unusual to find a custom chamber with a throat measuring only .001” over the nominal bullet diameter. These chambers aren’t nearly as critical concerning seating depth as those with typical factory dimensions. Correct seating depth for your particular rifle will always be a matter of trial and error. That's part of the fun!

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owensby
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

I had some berger bullets ordered and was sent the wrong ones so I thought I would try the col berger vld test with some hornady a-maxes in 168 gr at 100 yds.
Looks like into the lands was was best but even out to .120 wasn't bad.
Top row from left to right and second row first dot was .120 off.
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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

two shots for 0.000 and 0.120?

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owensby
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:12 am    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

These were all 3 shot groups.Have loaded up some at 0.0 to try next week at 300 yds.Will try it with the bergers soon as I get some.
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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

I always experiment a bit with it , but , I aint into bench or varmint anymore , and seriously doubt that anyone could , beyond a reasonable doubt prove any real differences and positively attribute it to seating depth ..

Case in point ?? You probably cant seat a bullet out to the lands in a Webby ( I cudnt ) unless you use it as a single shot , and they are pretty accurate , even tho' I hate them , and used to own a couple ..

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

Do I understand you correctly? You don’t believe that seating depth can affect accuracy!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

Nope , I do believe it affects it ..

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

I guess I don’t understand what your trying to say then !!! Embarassed

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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

Well maybe I shudda re worded what I said ..

I believe it affects accuracy , but from MY standpoint of hunting accuracy inside 300 yards or so , its pretty much a moot point ..

Also some bullets are different , Barnes you dont want it up close , even they say this for their bullets ..

And as I said about the Webbys , they have so much freebore , and yet they are superbly accurate .. I cant say for all Webbys , as I have only had two , a 378 and 460 , they could not even get close to the lands and still use the magazine ..

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: How far off the lands !!! Reply with quote

It might be a moot point in a hunting rifle but if I can turn a 2 inch gun into a sub 1 inch just by changing something as simple as the seating depth, I’ll do it every time.

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