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Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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ripper007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:36 pm    Post subject: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

I have a colt 45 acp gold cup trophy.

I am thinking about purchasing a few things for reloading.

1) NEW Lee Pro 4-20 - 110 Volt $59.39
2) NEW Lee Deluxe 45 Acp Carbide 4 Die Set $34.95
3) Lee Six Cavity Commercial Quality Molds TL452 230GR RN $32.48
4) Lee Lube & Size Kit .452 $12.50


I know the 45 acp bullets are a .451.
it looks like all the led bullets for the 45 acp are a .452.

my question is about the "Lee Lube & Size Kit .452".
is the .452 the one I need or a .451.

this is my first time to try to poor my own led bullets.
I am almost sure that the .452 is the one I need . since the 45 acp six cavity mods are .452.

any help or advise on this would be helpful.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

Lead .45ACP bullets are traditionally .452". It has only been in the last several years that the .45 Colt dimensions have also been mostly reduced to the .452" general range rather than the more traditional .454". Even if your bore is a true .451", the .452" bullets will generally shoot better and still won't create excessive pressure. This assumes that loaded rounds will chamber...a concern that probably won't even raise its head. All of my .45ACP pistols digest .452" bullets quite well.

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ripper007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

Thanks, that was very good information.

I ordered those parts mentioned in the first post.


now, I need to figure out what kind of lead to use.

I was originally going to go around and collect all the lead tire weights that could be received free from tire shops.
Thinking of saving money on reloading.

did some research on this, and seen there is lead you can buy for reloading.

whats the cheapest lead for casting bullets ?
what mix of lead is the best ? 20 Parts Lead to 1 Part Tin ?

I take it that getting lead from tires may not be very good ?? or roof jacks made out of lead ??

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
update.

I called a gunsmith and asked him if he had any lead for sale for casting.
He did not have lead for sale. but he did have a box of about 1200 45 acp half wad cutter casted bullets thats already sized and lubed for $35.00.

I will probably pick that box up tomorrow.
I do not believe I can buy lead and make my own cast bullets for that price.
That box might last me a couple of days.
I would still like to know your guys thoughts about casting bullets, what kind of lead is the best, where to buy the cheapest lead. and is it ok to cast lead bullets from tire weights ?

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

Nothing wrong with wheel weights. At .45 ACP pressures you shouldn't have to worry about adding either tin or antimony. You don't want bullets that are too hard, since they can be as prone to leading as those that are too soft since they don't "bump up" to fill the bore as effectively. If your bullets weigh too much less than they should from your mold you can always add a few pounds of lead to both increase the weight and soften the mix. If you have a real hardware store near (as opposed to Menards or Loews) they might even have pigs of pure "plumbers lead" to add to your mix. This would probably be too cost prohibitive for creating your own mix for large quantities, but as an additive might be a good choice.

Do watch those wheel weights, however...some of them aren't lead. I haven't run into any yet, but I have heard that many are of another material.

If looking for pre-cast bullets, try www.carrollsweb.com/gu...llets.html or www.reloadsnmore.com/p...tInfo.html Prices are relatively reasonable and shipping is included in the price the last I knew.

Good luck and hope this helps.

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ripper007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

Thanks, that was very good information.
after talking to a few people, it seems like there are a few that use wheel weights for reloading bullets. they seem to be happy with it.

I drove up to the first tire shop in town and they have me a about a little more than half a 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights. I almost could not pick it up. I ended up buying a Lyman 4-Cavity Ingot Mold with Handle and a RCBS Lead Dipper last night from MidwayUSA. I plan on melting the wheel weights in a iron pot, clean out all the dirt metal clips and other residue, then poor the lead in the Lyman ingot for use in a lee 20# lead furnace.

I found a site called Rotometals.
www.rotometals.com

they have a variety of lead and lead mix metals for sale for about the cheapest I could find. and free shipping for orders over $99.00.
but that is allot of lead.

1 to 20 Bullet alloy Ingot (95%-lead,-5%-tin)

Price per Pound $2.25 or less!

Price Breaks at 50, 200 and 500 pounds


Sold by the pound For ever 4-5 pounds you will get 1 pug
Each Pug weights 4 5 lb. Pugs 3.5" Dia x 1.5"
Twenty parts of lead and one part of tin (95% lead, 5% tin). This has been the standard blackpowder cartridge alloy since the 45 70 Government cartridge was first loaded in 1873. It is also popular with many of today's Cowboy Action Shooters. The Brinell Hardness of 20 1 alloy is approximately 10.

www.rotometals.com/pro..._alloy.htm

thanks again to every one that has posted.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:01 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

Ripper wrote:
I plan on melting the wheel weights in a iron pot, clean out all the dirt metal clips and other residue, then poor the lead in the Lyman ingot for use in a lee 20# lead furnace.

Good pick up Ripper...that is a lot of boolits.

When melting the wheel weight mix, flux the alloy every 5 minutes or so with a little beeswax....a piece about half the size of a marble...just drop it in, stir it around and watch out for the smoke igniting. It isn't a problem, and it separates a lot of the crap and corruption from the alloy and you can skim it off the top. If you flux properly, the crud will be like dust on top of the alloy.

The alloy from Rotometals sounds ok...I am surprised that there is no antimony in it. A good bullet alloy has a small quantity of antimony in it...This is the stuff MidwayUSA is selling, Ney Certified Linotype Bullet Casting Alloy Box of 4 Ingots (4% Tin, 12% Antimony And 84% Lead)

Have a look at this link for an article on Lead Alloys:

Lead Alloys

Cheers, Vince

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ripper007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

Thanks Vince, that was some very good information.

Rotometals do have a few other lead ingots to chose from.

Lyman #2 Bullet Ingot (90%-Lead,-5%-Tin,-5%-Antimony)

Sold by the pound For ever 4 to 5 pounds you will get 1 Ingot
Each ingot weights 4-5 lb. and is 8-3/4" x 1" x 2"
Lyman #2 (90% Lead, 5% Tin, 5% Antimony) The Brinell Hardness of this Linotype alloy is about 15.

that might be a better lead bar to buy. but its a little more expensive.

I ended up going to a tire shop. they gave me about a 1/2 5gallon bucket full of wheel weights. I got a nice old pot to melt a lot of wheel weights at the same time. will use flux and bees wax like you said. then poor in to a 4 section ingot bars.
I am still waiting on the lead furnace and bullet molds and a few other things I need to show up from ups.

you have helped me out allot. I appreciate that.

I think I just need to get all my stuff in , and start melting and poring lead. practice. and do some more reading.

I need to get some flux.

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

The alloy I buy is almost exactly the same as the Lyman #2...a great alloy. I could push that at almost magnum velocities out of my S&W 586, and using my home made lube got very minimal leading.

I also cast .308 150gn FNGC boolits that I use in my 30.30 with the same alloy. They are not as accurate as jacketed boolits...but by crikey they hit hard.

Cheers, Vince

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ripper007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

after reading some more about melting lead, I came across a interesting subject.

after melting lead in a lead furnace and done with poring , time to clean up.
now, would a person remove all lead from the lead furnace and clean it very good ? or would a person choose to leave about a 1/2 to 1" inch or more in the lead furnace ?

I have seen people make post saying good and bad things on both ways.

one point I read about leaving some lead in the pot was. if you leave some lead in the pot, it helps make it easier on the heating elements, and that it will melt the lead faster since there is more lead on the heating element surface.

what do you guys think ?

I ended up getting some Gulf Wax, house hold paraffin wax. will this work ok for getting the dirty stuff out of the lead ?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

Ripper wrote:
what do you guys think ?

I ended up getting some Gulf Wax, house hold paraffin wax. will this work ok for getting the dirty stuff out of the lead ?

I don't use an electric melting pot, so I can't really say...however, I don't see that there would be a great deal of difference. I suppose the best way tio find out is to "suck it and see"....try both ways.

Not too sure about using paraffin wax as a flux mate...I've always used beeswax. The beeswax not only get out the crud, but it also fluxes the different metals together into an alloy.

Give the paraffin a try mate...but in all honesty...the beeswax works a treat and would probably be cheaper than paraffin. "If'n it ain't broke, then don't fix it."

Cheers, Vince

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ripper007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:07 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

I got the Paraffin was, because I read a few post some were saying that it worked and was cheaper than beeswax. a pound of it was only $3.99.
I have read that beeswax is better.

this evening I was putting some stuff up in the pantry. I seen a can on top of a shelf. its a can of Skidmores Beeswax waterproofing, made with 100% Beeswax. Vincent Skidmore, maker . made with plants, trees & beeswax: by humans.
not sure if that would work as good.
its been a few years since I bought that. I had got it for water proofing my work boots. but never used it.

I am more nervous than a prostitute in church, waiting for these packages to show up from the mail delivery. I have been kind of excited about molding my own lead bullets.

have you ever used a sing hollow point mold. the only one I can find for a 45 acp is a 185 grain hollow point sing mold for about $55.00 or more.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:43 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

Don't know about the waterproofing stuff mate.

I have only ever cast one hollow point...a looooooooong time ago... and that was a .38 cal SWC. From memory the "plug" for the HP was integral to the mold. You would cut the sprue, open the mold slightly, then rap smartly on the handle hinge for the bullet to drop out.

I have a LEE 12g Slug mold and that is fairly easy to use, so I can't imagine that you would have any problems using a HP boolit mold mate.

Take care when casting mate. Remember...SAFETY FIRST. Be methodical (as boring as that can be) and be consistent. Keep a check on the temperature of your mold. If it starts taking longer for the sprue to set and your boolits start to come out not looking smooth and shiny, then your mold is most likely starting to get a bit hot...let it cool a little.

Cheers, Vince

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

the Lyman ingot 4 bay came in today. it makes about 1 pound ingots.

I made 17 so far. I think lead weights are very dirty.
I put about a marble size piece of wax in the melted lead, it caught fire quickly, did not burn long. I tried to stir the melted lead as steady as possible with my wifes nice big metal stirring spoon.

I did see some powdery dust looking stuff on top. I scooped it off. the longer I let the lead sit, and the more I scooped the spoon across the top of the lead, I kept getting cloudy film that was easily scooped up and removed.

not sure were the heat was at ? when I pored the lead into the ingot, it did not take long for it to harden up. was like with in 5 seconds. I think if I poor slower it might make better looking molds. ? I pored one a little slower than i did the rest and the sides are smooth. the other ones have little ripple lines on the side of them, but not too bad.

I had to stop melting, my wife needed the pot I was borrowing from here. its bout supper time. JK.

will get some bees wax and try it next time and see if there is any difference.

oh, I used a Colman stove that uses Colman fuel, just like the Colman Lantern uese. it took a while for the lead to melt, if anything, I think the temperature could of been on the cool side. but I know it was above 571 F degrees. that as far as my digital temperature meeter would go. I think I will buy a cheap electric single element cooking heater with a temperature setting on it. it will save me from having to add Colman fuel and pumping it up all the time.

my wife also said I could not melt lead in the Kitchen anymore. the fumes was giving her a headache. just kidding about that. I was out side in the back yard.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

Ripper, I use a propane/LPG burner and an old aluminium pressure cooker...without the lid of course Laughing to melt my alloy. LPG is more than hot enough to do the job...I have to turn it down all the time.

When I flux the alloy with the beeswax, I am anything but gentle when I stir it through. I wear heavy welders gloves and I stir the mix carefully but fairly rough to make sure that I get the wax all through the mix. I also "scrape" the bottom of the pot with the stirrer to loosen any crud on the bottom...it all comes to the surface too.

Mate....where is the wife's priorities....making boolits comes before eatin'. Laughing No sense of humour some women.

Electric melting pots are ok...but I prefer the LPG burner myself...a little cheaper to run and more versatile...you can make a cup of coffee on it too. Laughing

Keep at it mate. The learning curve gets a little steep sometimes, but its not too difficult to get on top of...and when you do it is easy.

Cheers, Vince

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:04 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Lube & Size Kit dia. for 45 acp Reply with quote

Thanks Vince, you have been a great help.
thats exactly the kind of information I need to know.

I did scrape the bottom and when I did, it felt like the spoon was dragging over something. so I just scraped a little harder till it all felt smooth. and did notice more crud floating on top.

I had a gift certificate of $25.00 at amazon. ordered a pound of 100% bees wax. and found a deal on about 300 used brass for $18.99. after shipping I only had to pay around $14.00. thats about the cheapest used brass that I have found. the shipping seemed to a little high but still allot cheaper if I had to go pick it up myself.

About how long do you flux the melted lead before poring?
I seemed to keep skimming the top over and over again and still getting dull darkish looking skim off of it. I thought if I kept that up I would of had the whole lead pot emptied. not sure if the top just gets that way or if its still impurities and crap that needs to be skimmed away. ?

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