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22-k hornet cast load help
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Vince
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Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Sendin....have a look at my previous posts on this thread mate.

Mixing you own alloy is at best trial and error, with no guarantees what you have in your mix. I have mixed 50/50 linotype and pure lead in the past, but the best way by far is to buy a ready mixed alloy with a assayers certificate as to the actual percentages of Lead, Tin and Antimony in the alloy.

Cheers, Vince

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sendin
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Hi Vince -

You were one of the "warners" I was thinking about in my previous post since I've already read your recommendations. Found a local supplier:
www.rotometals.com/Lin...-1896.html

Seems a shame to stare at my pile of lead and buy, but I am sure you are correct to get the best results.

Here's another interesting link I found - a special Lee Mould:

www.midsouthshooterssu...00622BATOR

Not sure I would use that for mine, but I guess it was intended for use in the 22 Hornet

Denny

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Glenn1022
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

No problem...ask away. I do not mind helping out. I have spent many hours toiling over the lead pot trying to get the right mixture. Unfortunately, I do not have access to Linotype or any other known type lead any more. I can order it though the net but funds are a problem so I have been trying to work around the problem. The advice on the net to use a known lead will make it easier for you. I have cast for larger calibers for years but the .224 caliber has been a challenge. I have a large store of bullets for my 308, 30-30, 357 and 45 that has been made from strait Linotype and Lyman #2 lead.
I now use ww/tin mixture. I use 50/50 solder for my tin. I only have a 2lb pot that will go to 750 degrees. Made back in the late 50's.
I use the Lyman mold 225438. Once I cleaned and broke in the mold, I started casting. Took me awhile to figure out that the mold had to be rather hot to get a good bullet. If the bullet was a mirror finish...it was a dud. The grooves edges are not sharp. Once the mold gets hot enough, the bullets will have a polished aluminum look. Hard to explain but you will know once you see it. Once you get to that point, don’t stop till lead runs out or you get tired. Keep a steady pace. Too fast and you will get hot spots on your bullets. They will appear as whitish color spots and most likely the edges of the grooves will not be filled out in that area. Flux and stir the pot every so often or your bullets will come out at odd weights and trash will start getting in your bullets. By trash, I mean oxidized tin and antimony will form voids and dirty spots on your bullets. Make sure your spru plate is not too tight. It will cause you to tear cavities in the base of these small bullets. Never had that problem on larger calibers.

Below is long winded but I am a do it the hard way type and I like figuring things out. Learn alot that way...that and I don’t have the cash to buy allot of gadgets. So I make do with what I have.

As for hardness testing...I do not have a gage for that. I made a temporary DIY test till I can get one. I went to a local gun smith and got several bullets that he had cast that he had tested. I took two 3 x 3 blocks of aluminum that I had and bored 4 holes in each block. I then soldered 4 rods to the bottom plate and polished out the holes on the second plate. This way the top plate would slide up and down without binding. I made a 14lb lead chunk formed in a pipe that I could place on top of the sliding plate. I then placed each of his bullets of known hardness one at a time and applied the weight. I then took my dial calipers and measured each bullet. This gave me a guide line. I would then take and cast up a bunch of bullets and test them with different mixtures of ww and tin. I tried several different lots. Some strait from pot and others from water cooled or oven heat treatment. I was able to get a basic hardness for my cast bullets. My WW/tin mixture is about 11bhn. It seems to be rather accurate as each batch was slightly different. Every time I make a new batch, I place in my DIY tester and check them out. They stay pretty consistent till I make a new batch from a different lot of WW. Anywhere from .001 to .0005. I make WW 20lb batches. I use a cast iron mold that is used to make cornbread that looks like corncobs. It makes ingots that are an average of 15 ounces a piece.
It works for me but if you have the cash…get a tester if you want to get very accurate hardness test.

I found that the strait from the pot air cooled bullets do best for me. I am not out to shoot 2500+ with cast bullets. I was looking for more modest ranges of 1400 to 2000fps. And I get good expansions from those bullets as low as 1000fps.

As I said in previous post, Lil’Gun did very well for me as did Unique. I just loaded up another test batch with loads ranging from 7.5gr thru 8gr. I got my best groups from earlier tests in that range. I am going to try and repeat those test to see if it was a fluke or not and to home in the best load for that powder and bullet. With Unique I am working on the 3.5gr to 4gr area. That was the best groups I got for that lot last time.
Lube seems to be another issue all together. I am still experimenting with different lubes I make myself. Vince gave me a few tips and got me started down that path.
This is something I really enjoy. Cast and reload while weather is too hot, cold or rainy. Better than watching the boob tube reruns... Unless it’s a good hunting show Very Happy
I salivate at the thought of going out and testing my loads on the weekends. I work 10 to 14 hour days during the week and I am too tired to hit the range by the time I get home.
I hope this helps you out a little. It is not hard, just takes time. Once I nail down a formula that works for my gun and the loads I want for different game for that caliber. I pretty much stop experimenting as much for that gun. I then work on making sure I can repeat the process over and over again with the same results. Once I have familiarized myself with those loads and where they hit when I pull the trigger….I am hunting fool till I get something else to work up loads on.
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sendin
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Wow - thanks - the info (long winded or not) is very helpful. I try to take a similar approach and prefer to take it to hunting rather than paper.

I will probably end up taking Vince's advice on the lead in the interest of time which I seem to have little of these days. I lost two sheep to coyotes recently and need to get to hunting, but in between hunts I have to get tuned up on my shooting since my eyes aren't what they used to be. So thus, since I like casting, I need to shoot up some bullets and the factory stuff is too expensive. I have cases, dies, powder, primers, bullets and the rest of the goodies except the mould and the gas checks, but the smallest bullet I ever casted was for my 44 Mag Bisley. If I can cast my own for the 22 Hornet then I am good to go for quite a while. If I can get close to the 1" groups at 100 yds I am getting with the factory stuff, I am good to go for hunting too.

Did you check out that Lee mould from MidSouth. ?

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Sendin....in the interim, if the yote problem is gettin' bad, have a look at buying some factory bullet...not factory loads...from wherever, load 'em up and blast the yotes into the middle of next week.

Continue on with your load development with the cast loads whilst having fun with them pesky yotes.

Don't waste the lead you have either mate....it is great for casting fishing sinkers, or simply trade it in with the local scrap yard and do him a deal on alloy for bullets.

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

See if you can trade the lead you have for bullets from the local dealer.

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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sendin
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

I have the bullets and I have some factory. I am corralling the sheep under a light at night. So far so good. We've lost 8 sheep in the neighborhood and it has been quieter lately since the county trapper shot one 1+ year female about a mile away and snared another 1 + year female about 1/4 mile away about 2 weeks ago.

Due to my schedule - my hunting opportunities aren't very good, but I've been out a few times. I am trying limit my calling until it improves a bit and the wind on my property generally does not favor the best stands.

I will get one or two here - but it may take some time. I would like to get some shooting practice in where I simulate some faster shots. I've done a little of that and I am getting back some of my skills from my pig hunting days - didn't take too long - that was nice.

I have Hornady V-Max 40 gr moly to load with some Lil Gun - I will use that in the formed Winchester facotry brass that I am saving. The factory Winchester 46 gr HP is very accurate in my Savage Mod 40.

I think offering to trade the lead is a very GOOD idea - thank you.

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Glenn1022
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Location: NC Foothills

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

We have a few Coyotes here. I have yet to shoot one but have seen several and called in a couple that were in to thick of brush to get a shot. I do however shot a lot of grey foxes, few reds, coons, and possums. I got a bobcat last year using a mouse call.
We have a big problem here with stray house cats. Wiping out the quail and rabbits around here. It is a big problem.

As suggested, dumping your lead to a salvage yard and getting a few bucks is a good idea. However the pure lead you mentioned would be great for casting muzzle loader bullets.

I am no expert in casting. I do what works for me. My father and grandfather taught me what they knew and I just carry on trying to improve upon their successes.

Every new gun for me provides a new challenge that I have to ask a lot of questions on. 22-k hornet on my Contender was something new for me and I think I picked a winner. It has a lot of options for it and works well with cast or jacketed bullets. I like the 40gr and 50gr Vmax bullets for my long range loads. They will tear up a groundhog. Most of my shooting is around 50 to 100yds max though. That is why I wanted cast loads. Cheaper for plinking and shooting out to 100yds for varmints. People have been very helpful here setting me back on track when I go astray or just get lost on a problem.
Back to work now....lunch time is over Sad
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Hey Glenn, you have mail!

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Vince
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Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
However the pure lead you mentioned would be great for casting muzzle loader bullets.

Now that's a damn fine idea Glenn. I don't have a Front Stuffer so I hadn't thought of it. Well done, good pick up mate. Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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Glenn1022
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 22-k hornet cast load help Reply with quote

Finally nailed down my loads for the 22k hornet. Took me a few weeks to get back to it because of work.
7.7 gr of Lil'Gun for my cast 45gr avg 2103fps gives me .878" groups @50yds.
12gr of Lil'Gun for 50gr V-max Avg 2751fps gives me .5" groups @100yds
12.5gr of Lil'Gun for 40gr V-max avg 3109fps with .375" groups @100yds
I am looking for another coronagraph because I think mine is off @about 50 or so fps. I compared it to a friends and either mine or his is off. My bullet drop is very close to point blank and the velocities I record in it so I will have to compare to another chronograph to be sure.

Took me about 1000rds to get to this point and allot of different powders. Faint It was worth it though. I learned a few things in areas I thought that I could not learn anymore in.
The most accurate powder I used was IMR 4227 with 50gr V-Max but I did not get the velocity I needed for that round for 200yd shots. I averaged about 2450fps with ragged one hole groups. Pushing the loads beyond that point was severely shortening my case life.
I will continue to tune my loads for this gun but these will be my core rounds for any future comparison.
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