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WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:11 am    Post subject: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

Could some kind soul run a short Paper patching primer here?

I want to shoot my ho ho ho low points bullets at much higher velocity than it is right now (maybe to about 1800fps)

There are a lot of paper patch references in the net but I want someone that is doing this regularly to teach me.
maybe there is steps that may be important to know but not told elsewhere..

I need to know the following:
- what paper is good to use?
I heard that lens cleaning tissue are great for patching, is this true?
Could I use kraft / butcher paper?

- what velocity can I use these pellets up to?

- How to finish a flat based bullet?

- should I size after patching?

- should I lube them too?

- would the lube on paper patch affect the powder inside the cartridge?

- what is your method in preparing the patch?
which direction to cut?
what do you use to wet the paper before rolling?

Have you try using cigarette roller to roll the patch around the bullet?

anything else I miss?

Thanks

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

I did it years ago for an old .54 caliber Sharps reproduction. This was actually making paper "cartridges" but the steps are quite similar. I'll see if I still have all the steps and info on file. The only thing I remember for sure was that I used a grade of paper called "onion skin" (this is very thin and of high quality)in the paper trade and cut each patch in a trapezoid shape for rolling ease and precise fit without overlap. They were moistened by lightly pressing them against a moist sponge prior to wrapping around the bullet. The excess at the base should be rolled tightly and, once the "tail" is dry, cut with a pair of diagonal cutters making sure to leave just enough to completely cover the base of the bullet.

In the mean time, be sure you want to do this. It is tedious and paper can be rough on barrels. Even the finest grade of paper is an abrasive; especially when pushed at pressure through a constriction (barrels). Now, it would probably take far more rounds than you will shoot to damage a barrel, but it is worth considering.

What caliber are you planning to shoot anyway?

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

Gday SSL, thanks for your answer.

I am shooting 45-70 460 grains bullet with HUGE hollow point.
I want to try to make the bullet out of either pure lead or somewhere near to it in softness - to encourage really good expansion and power transfer.

Most paper are abrasive but I thought lens cleaning paper are made to abrade less, thus my question about these paper.

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The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

geland, I have never heard of this nor do I understand the purpose!!!
I would guess that it has something to do with leading the barrel when soft lead is used.
Can you please give a little background and knowledge on the subject???

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

There are lots of sources online for info on paper patched bullets, as Gelan pointed out. It was pretty common in the late 1800s, before the modern jacketed bullets came along. The paper wrap prevented leading at higher velocities.

I haven't looked yet (the IT nazis at work prevent me from looking at "gun stuff") but I bet that the black powder cartridge shooters doing silhouette matches could provide you with good info. I'd try a search on that.

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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

gelandangan wrote:
Gday SSL, thanks for your answer.

I am shooting 45-70 460 grains bullet with HUGE hollow point.
I want to try to make the bullet out of either pure lead or somewhere near to it in softness - to encourage really good expansion and power transfer.

Most paper are abrasive but I thought lens cleaning paper are made to abrade less, thus my question about these paper.


wtf Good god man how much damage do you want to do with that 45-70???

I suppose they would do one hell of a job on a camel. Very Happy

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

There is a special paper that is normally used. I think it is both a special thickness and tear resistant.
I wish now that I had kept the info I found on it all those years ago - maybe there is better stuff now though.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

wiersy111 wrote:

wtf Good god man how much damage do you want to do with that 45-70???

wiersy,
here is my field report on the Ho-ho-ho hollow point 45-70 and some reason on what and why I want to change
www.huntingnut.com/ind...amp;t=5235

and here is the picture of the projectile.
www.huntingnut.com/ind...amp;t=5180

I am usually a subsonics shooter, and still want to shoot subsonics with the 45-70
The reason I want to use paper patch is that if I use soft lead proj, even at subsonics I may lead my barrel.

The projectile mold does not have gas check base, so I reckon maybe paper patching may help in doing this.

I may run the cast projectile through .451 sizer,
paper patch it to about .459 or .460
then run it again through .458 sizer before loading into the cartridge.
I am not sure if this is the correct procedure..

Also, I am thinking, I may even try paper patching my 300 whisper..
Imagine 250 grain .308 soft lead pellet that actually expand at 1000 fps !!
Yeah... Very Happy Very Happy
And I don't even have to bother making lube groove on the mold..
Just a plain hole with an ejecting rod on one side and a sprue cutter on the other.

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

The old timers used what they called "bank paper". Paper of this nature has a higher content of cloth fibers and is tougher than just plain paper. Today I this is what we call "rag" paper. In the case of traditional paper-patched bullets, the bullets were undersized and the paper patching made up the difference between the bullet diameter and the bore size, so you are on the right track there, but I think .451 is quite a bit too small. Regular copier paper averages .004" and standard target paper (buff) averages .006". I'm pretty sure that bullet patching calls for a single wrap so that the edges meet perfectly; otherwise you will have an uneven thickness somewhere on the bullet. I don't think you want to size the completed bullet/patch combo either. You might risk damaging all the hard work you spent just getting it patched!

I'm not trying to talk you out of trying patching...experimentation is fun, but if you cast your bullets at 20-1 and use a good lube like SPG I think you will get all the expansion you might want and little leading. Which ever way you go, let us know. I'm anxious to see results!

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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

WOW I am impressed I figured it would made hamburger.

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America " for an amount of "up to and including my life."

US ARMY RETIRED

The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

Found this site
www.public.iastate.edu...PB/PPB.htm
Nice and plenty of info..

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

Late reply but man, great reading and excellent results.

Like the other Elmer said....'ya can eat right up the bullet hole'.

Nice going and the wabbit was an excellent and appropriate touch!

I like that Buff. Clas. gun and my brother is serioulsy eyeballing it over at Davidson's.

Great job mate.
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

I was going through some old magazines and lo! and behold! there it is! "How To: Paper Patched Bullets"! "Handloader" magazine, Dec. '02. Article by Ross Seyfried, who is one of my favorites. One of the more interesting aspects of the article was the part about paper patching jacketed bullets to make them fit in a slightly larger bore, in this case he patched 0.308" bullets to use in an 8mm (0.318") bore.

I had planned to try this with some Minie bullets I bought for my .58 muzzle loaders. The bullets are hard cast, not pure lead, which I didn't realize until I fired some. They won't expand to grip the rifling and shot about a 5 FOOT group at 100 yards. I figured I could paper patch them and make them work. I may also have to try the jacketed thing, maybe a .308" in a .303 Enfield?

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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

Been doing it for years , paper patching that is ..

Fun fun fun

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: WANTED - Paper patching Primer / tutorial Reply with quote

Why paper-patched? Go to your local pub and ask (or steal) some of these cards they put under your glass. Take them home and let them absorb melted bullet-lube. When cooled, punch out little round seals that fit your barrel and put these under your lead bullet when you load it.
When you still have leading, try a lube-pill: put about 1/8" to 1/4" bullet-lube between the card and the lead bullet and let it surprise you.
For me the lubed card works well in 45-70 and the BP-muzzle loader Parker Hale Volunteer. My friend uses the "lube-pill" in his 45-120 and can shoot 30-40 "black-powdered-misiles" without cleaning his barrel.

But when you realy want to use paper patched bullets: there used to be a special .375 H&H forum (and I don't know the right link anymore) where they recommended special dies and the use of self-sticking paper labels.
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