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Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes
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Vince
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:19 am    Post subject: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

A mate in Missouri sent this to me. The Asian counterfeit market has struck again. Mad Evil or Very Mad

Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes

Cheers, Vince

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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

Vince,
Saw a post where a shooter was saying he bought a M-4 for half price. He might want to check with Leupold to see is the #s are OK.
Ed

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jeh7mmmag
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

Thanks for the tip,
I am watching a Leupold sale right now.
I heard that it is also advisable to get the serial number off of scope, call Leupold and they will verify for you.

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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

Thanks for the Heads up Vince.
Joe

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

Mates, I am right now in GuangZhou, China, attending the Canton Fair.
I saw plenty of scopes, binoculars, etc. items for next year's shipment.

Those counterfeits is available in every brand, size, type, color and counterfeit quality - with or without the logo label or engravings. Some are incredibly similar to the original stuff, and some are very poor copy.
Yes they are a nuisance but this is life, to ensure that they could put a foot in the market door fast, they do the counterfeit thingy.

But then again, it is also the fault of the consumer, some who are willing to purchase the counterfeits

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

Most of these fakes are ment for Airsoft guns:

Action M3 3.5-10x40 Red/Green Dot Reticle Scope = 72$
Action M3 3.5-10x40 Red/Green Dot Reticle Scope = 72$
Action M1 3.5-10x40 Red/Green Cross Reticle Scope = 70$
Action M3 3.5-10x40 Red/Green Cross Reticle Scope = 72$
Action M1 3.5-10x50 Red Cross Reticle Scope = 78$
Action M1 4.5-14x50 Red/Green Cross Reticle Scope = 82$
King Arms 3.5-10x40 M3 Scope = 70$
G&P M-1 3.5-10x40mm Illuminate Crosshair Scope = 199$
G&P M3 3.5-10 X 40mm Scope = 93$
Guarder M3 3-12x44 30mm Tube Range Scope = 160$

And there is look alikes of many other scopes scopes that are used by soliders, police etc made by manufacturers such as Elcan, Aim Point, EOTech, Trijicon, etc. Smile

Dimitri

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

As I said, there are a goodly numbers of fakes available.
As the rule of thumb, you get what you paid for, if you pay $70 for a scope, you get a $70 scope.

The trouble with these Chinese copies is not that they were made poorly because the Chinese could not made good ones, it is because that the importer in our countries insists on high profit on the expense of quality.
As far as I know, every factory I talk to wants to give highest quality possible, the problem starts when the buyers specify the price and telling the factory to lower their quality. The factory have no choice because they have to make items that sells and the importers are a buyer.

I have seen the Norin Optic Corporation (Optical branch of the Norinco) their products are being used by the Chinese army, police and SWATs. The quality of make is superior to some of the so called name brands available in Australia. The glass on the scopes are ground with similar machines that made Leica and Rodenstock lenses. The lens coating are properly applied and the design of the scope are of quality designs.
These scopes are NOT copies, they are original designed products, but because the brand are not known outside China, they do not have a chance in selling the scope on the prices they deserved. Viz. these scopes are of similar prices and quality as the Zeiss or Leupold scopes, but without the Zeiss or Leupold advertising force outside China.

Oh well.. here I am ranting away..

Gelan.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

Gidday Gelan....who let you out of the country again mate??? Laughing Laughing

Your observations are very interesting. I have never had a high opinion of products that come out of most of the Asian markets because they look cheap and nasty. It is interesting that they openly admit to manufacturing to a price. We have a bit of an expose on tv here at the moment about the Mattel brand of toys and how they are made cheaply and using lead based paint. One of the things they said last night was that the manager of the factory that paints the toys hung himself when told that his factory is responsible for millions of recalled toys....apparently he felt responsible.

What sort of prices are the Norinco optics going for over there in China?

Now onto more important things.....are ya gonna bring us all back a pressie this time mate ??? Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Razz
Or a few litres of duty free "wobbly boots" ??? Very Happy Very Happy Laughing Laughing Razz

Cheers, Vince

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

Only reason Norinco products are of slightly higher quality is cause they get all the funding they need from the Chinese Goverment (who by the way owns them) as its the Goverments main Military manufacturing company, everything from assult rifles, to Anti-Tank/Anti-Air weapons, to Main Battle tanks, to LAV look a likes, 155mm Howitzers, Radar systems, night vision systems, load bearing equipment, clothing etc.

You can order "expensive" tooling from China only to find its junk when it gets here, cause of wrong materials being used, improper finishes/sizes of the tooling etc. So you end up simply remaking the tooling over here.

The Chinese goverment protects the companies in its boarders thats why Chinese made knock off's of so many things out there and there is nothing the original company that owns the rights/patents to it can't do anything about it.

Don't let them fool you Galen, the Chinese want to increase their profits just as much as everyone else.

Dimitri

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

Hi Vince
Yeah, I went out again, but this time I brought my laptop Smile so I could yap in the ol' fireplace Very Happy Ok whatdayawantferpressie?

And, Dimitri, I am not and will not let them fool me, thats why I am here in the first place.

I admit that there are poor quality control in CHEAPER product out from China, however, there are A LOT of good product from the same country. China, contrary to popular believe, does produce a lot of quality product. They are the MAJOR producer of things such as digital cameras (I mean Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Leica, Pentax etc brands, as well as TwoBitsWhaccamacallit Cool brands).
Now, I believe most of you own a Digital camera, flip them upside down and see the sticker on it. More likely than not, they are made in China.
Now lets try another thing. go to your kitchen, and look at your kettle or toast, are they made in China? No? then you are paying a lot higher than your neighbours for similar stuff.

I agree that you may get junk when you order expensive toolings etc, but, what is expensive? compared to what? it must be cheaper than where ever else you usually order them from when you order it, otherwise you will get it from the other place in the first instance. Also, Where did you order it? do you know the supplier? manufacturer? Importer? did the specs you give them cover every instances? Do you have quality control agreements? If things made in China were so bad, how come China is the world LARGEST consumer of raw materials? not to forget that they have a budget surplus of US$27 Billion on the month of August 2007 (I reckon that is the GDP of Australia last year)

Now, me, I am an engineer designing stuff for multi national companies. The company I represented (sorry not allowed to say the name) at this moment supplies great quantity of GOOD product (coz I designed most of them Very Happy ) around the world. The reason I am here is to ensure that the specs are being adhered and the QC are being followed to the letter!!! This company would not survive if goods produced are below expected quality, yet they do get them made in China.

To discuss Vince's Question
Quote::
What sort of prices are the Norinco optics going for over there in China?
OOOOKAY... what is the question about? Price or Quality? if it is about the price, then the argument I presented in my last few posts (you want cheap price, you get cheap product) are trully valid.
Vince, would you believe that a 8x40 BAK-4 AA grade Norin Scope cost about AU$1140 (7500 RMB). Then again, it is waterproof to so many meters and shock proof (ie. could be used like a hammer Shocked for a few knocks) and with optic so clear you think that your target is only 2 meters in front of you. Do you want me to get a few? Smile

dam! its rainign outside Sad :( Sad

Gelan

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

Gelan,

Cannon and other company's do own their own plants in China you are correct. Mind you having a Cannon Digital camera fail just after the 3 year warrentee would have expired is always fun. Laughing

I do try to buy Canadian/American/British/Australian etc goods when I can though. Even if it means buying it for 175$ instead of 30$. Wink

For about 50% more then 1140$ AUD (about 1000$ USD) you can buy a NightForce scope (1,500$ USD) that is made in Australia or simply with that amount buy a "higher end" American made Leupold. Seems pretty expensive to me considering they sell whole rifles (Their M14/M1A clone) for 400$ CAD* (455$ AUD or 425$ USD). Confused

Dimitri

*Price is the cost Canadian Dealers sell it for, obviously its price from the Chinese factory is lower then that. Wink

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:

For about 50% more then 1140$ AUD (about 1000$ USD) you can buy a NightForce scope (1,500$ USD) that is made in Australia or simply with that amount buy a "higher end" American made Leupold. Seems pretty expensive to me considering they sell whole rifles (Their M14/M1A clone) for 400$ CAD* (455$ AUD or 425$ USD). Confused


[rant]

Mitri, thats exactly my point. The consumer (most of us) expect the goods that came out from china to be CHEAP, considering that they sold COPIES of A brand Model X item for 30% or so the price of the ORIGINAL stuff (of course the fact that it have 50% of the original quality left were never mentioned).
On the other hand an ORIGINAL product that carries 100% quality and sadly 100% of price were looked upon as being too expensive.

As I said before, you got what you paid for. If an American/Australian/English/Germany etc item were sold at 30% of what it usually fetch, you would definitely get cr4ppy stuff too. This rule does not apply only for item that came out of China.

The camera brands we mentioned before were Japanese brands (except Leica used to be German). Now, most of us know that Japanese product were cr4ppy back in the 60s and 70s (sorry 'Mitri I know you were not even born yet back then but Bushy and Vince and some others already chasing and scaring all te girls in the neighbourhood Very Happy ) But the Japanese branded cameras are all what left in the market today. Is that because their products were cr4ppy? or is that because their sales technique? Do you know that currently in the WORLD the only producer of Photographic paper and machines that were widely used and trusted are Fujifilm (Frontier machines and Fuji Crystal Archive paper) and Noritsu machine with Asian (china) made Kodak paper, of course there is Gretag Macbeth machines of unknown origin (China). Do you print your photos the proper way? (not inkjet rubbish) who print them? what paper did they use? Why cant you find a USA/AUstralia/Germany etc brand stuff?

IMHO, China is currently exercising a sales technique similar tho what the Japanese done back in the 70s. They flood the market with cheap products, let the suck3rs (consumer) buy them and force the competition (any other country's producer) out of business, and then dominate the market when the competition dries out, just like the Japanese done with the camera business.

Comparing products you should compare green apples with green apples, not red delicious against green apples. We all know that they are apples, and we should compares apples with apples. But one species is sour and the other is sweet. One is cheaper than the other.

If you want to try good Chinese products, then expect to pay at least the same as the products of similar quality, made elsewhere. Otherwise, we are NOT comparing apples with apples.

Be vewe vewe gweit imma hunting a wabbit...

[/rant]

Gelan

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Warning on Counterfeit Leopold Scopes Reply with quote

Gelan you are totally correct mate. You get what you pay for.

The way you have described things over there in China is pretty much the way we looked at things coming out of Japan in the 60's and 70's....Jap Crap was the term I believe. I am amazed at their MONTHLY (?!) surplus, and yes, you are correct in assuming that it is close to our GDP. Laughing Laughing

Enjoy your trip mate and keep the buggers honest.

Cheers, Vince

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