HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 415
BOT: 1
Total: 416
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Home
06: Your Account
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Your Account
13: Forums
14: Home
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Your Account
20: Your Account
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Your Account
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: News
30: Home
31: Forums
32: Home
33: Photo Albums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Photo Albums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Photo Albums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Your Account
47: Photo Albums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Photo Albums
53: Photo Albums
54: Forums
55: Home
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Home
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Your Account
65: Forums
66: Your Account
67: Home
68: Your Account
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Home
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Home
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Photo Albums
85: Forums
86: Your Account
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Home
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Your Account
97: Forums
98: Home
99: Photo Albums
100: Home
101: Your Account
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Home
107: Home
108: Photo Albums
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Your Account
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Photo Albums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Your Account
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Your Account
131: Home
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Your Account
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Photo Albums
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Your Account
147: Forums
148: Forums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Photo Albums
156: Your Account
157: Home
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Your Account
168: Home
169: Home
170: Forums
171: Forums
172: Your Account
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Photo Albums
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Forums
184: Your Account
185: Your Account
186: Your Account
187: Forums
188: Forums
189: Home
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Home
195: Home
196: Home
197: Forums
198: Photo Albums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Your Account
203: Forums
204: Home
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Home
208: Forums
209: Your Account
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Home
213: Your Account
214: Photo Albums
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Home
218: Forums
219: Photo Albums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: Forums
224: Forums
225: Photo Albums
226: Forums
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Forums
235: Forums
236: Forums
237: Home
238: Photo Albums
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Forums
247: Forums
248: Forums
249: Forums
250: Forums
251: Forums
252: Forums
253: Forums
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Home
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Photo Albums
262: Your Account
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Forums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Forums
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Your Account
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Forums
277: Forums
278: Photo Albums
279: Forums
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Home
283: Your Account
284: Your Account
285: Forums
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Forums
289: Forums
290: Forums
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Forums
294: Forums
295: Forums
296: Home
297: Forums
298: Forums
299: Forums
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: News
304: Forums
305: Forums
306: Forums
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Forums
310: Your Account
311: Home
312: Forums
313: Forums
314: Forums
315: Your Account
316: Forums
317: Forums
318: Your Account
319: Forums
320: Forums
321: Forums
322: Forums
323: Your Account
324: Photo Albums
325: Forums
326: Forums
327: Forums
328: Forums
329: Forums
330: Forums
331: Forums
332: Forums
333: Photo Albums
334: Forums
335: Forums
336: Forums
337: Forums
338: Home
339: Forums
340: Home
341: Forums
342: Forums
343: Your Account
344: Forums
345: Forums
346: Forums
347: Forums
348: Forums
349: Forums
350: Home
351: Forums
352: Your Account
353: Forums
354: Home
355: Forums
356: Forums
357: Photo Albums
358: Forums
359: Home
360: Forums
361: Photo Albums
362: Forums
363: Forums
364: Your Account
365: Forums
366: Photo Albums
367: Forums
368: Forums
369: Forums
370: Forums
371: Forums
372: Forums
373: Forums
374: Forums
375: Forums
376: Forums
377: Forums
378: Forums
379: Forums
380: Forums
381: Home
382: Forums
383: Forums
384: Home
385: Home
386: Forums
387: Forums
388: Your Account
389: Forums
390: Forums
391: Forums
392: Forums
393: Your Account
394: Forums
395: Forums
396: Forums
397: Forums
398: Photo Albums
399: Forums
400: Your Account
401: Photo Albums
402: Photo Albums
403: Forums
404: Forums
405: Forums
406: Forums
407: Forums
408: Home
409: Forums
410: Photo Albums
411: Your Account
412: Forums
413: Your Account
414: Forums
415: Your Account
  BOT:
01: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

5,000 fps! well, not yet
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Handloader
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

A recent trade for a VSSF in 220 Swift has led me on a quest to get to 5,000fps. There are several cartridges capable of doing this and the Swift is one of them.

First, of course, one needs a light bullet weight. Very light. My choice was for the 35gr Berger. My opinion and forty years of working with the Swift leds me to Winchester brass. Stuffing said brass with H335 got me close to goal at 4,792 fps, however, some pressure signs were becoming apparent. VV offers some powders that may help me cross the 5M boundary safely and I await a shipment of 2lbs that should arrive tomorrow.

Accuracy was surprisingly good considering the bullet's rotational spin, with 5 shot groups running .685 MOA. I'm surprised the bullets didn't disintegrate on their way to the target.

To the question of "why?" there is no answer and none needed. But, should I try to justify my labors it would be to test the theory of hydrastatic shock as we near coyote hunting time.

In the interim I take some glee when a few gather at the bench to look at those chronograph numbers.

more to follow, if the goal is met
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Handloader,

Now thats a speed record. Almost a mile in a second! Shocked Get it to 5,280fps and you will have a round going a mile a second! You can forget measuring the speed in feet per second at that point. Shocked

Keep us updated Very Happy

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

In my .22-250 when I get up around 4800fps my bullets disintegrate from barrel friction and they never reach the target... o.O


-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

I can't even imagine that sort of speed out of a bullet. But then again, I suppose it is attainable. Just a thought, but, what would a load like this be doing to the throat....mucho erosion methinks.

Maybe a solid copper bullet is the way to go, although pressure could be a problem using them.

I'm not an engineer, but I would imagine that anyone with a lathe and the knowledge to do very close tolerance work could produce a bullet of the appropriate size and weight to overcome the problems of pressure and disintergration on route to the target.

A light bullet travelling at that speed would be devastating on a yote....or any varmint for that matter. I have this mental picture of a PD taking a chest shot.....instant RED MIST !
Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Laughing Laughing Laughing

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Vince,

I'm told Remington Accelorators in 30-06 did that on small game, and they were only going at 4080fps at muzzle. Shocked

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
skb2706
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

I am thinking that a max'd out load in my 22-250 AI using a molyed 33 gr. Speer TNT bullet might get me close if the bullet would hang in there. Curious if you can get there..........let us know.
Back to top
View user's profile
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
I can't even imagine that sort of speed out of a bullet. But then again, I suppose it is attainable. Just a thought, but, what would a load like this be doing to the throat....mucho erosion methinks.

I am pretty sure the M1A Abrams Tank shoots its shells at over 6,000fps


-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
mc223
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 02, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: S/E Kansas

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Found this at Reloaders Nest


Load 1200 in caliber .22-250 Ackley Improved

LoadID 1200
Bullet Berger MEF
BulletWeight 35 grs
Powder Vihtavuori N135
PowderWeight 46 grs
Primer
Brass Make Remington
Barrel Length (inches)
C.O.L (inches)
Velocity 5130 fps
Group 0.929 (inches by 3 shot at 100 yds)
Submitted Date 3/18/2002 1:25:00 PM
Submitted By
Gun Info
Comment

Energy 2041 ft-lbs
TKO 5.69
OGW 248 lbs

www.reloadersnest.com/...oadID=1147

_________________
Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier'n puttin' it back.
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

DallanC wrote:
Vince wrote:
I can't even imagine that sort of speed out of a bullet. But then again, I suppose it is attainable. Just a thought, but, what would a load like this be doing to the throat....mucho erosion methinks.

I am pretty sure the M1A Abrams Tank shoots its shells at over 6,000fps


-DallanC

That is awesome, especially for such a large heavy round.

Found this info:

M1A ABRAMS TANK

5500fps, and from a projectile you measure in POUNDS..not grains. Devastating to say the least.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Scary tanks. Shocked

0.6 gallons a mile. or 300 Gallons in 8 hours. Shocked Not that feul friendly though.

I wonder if a really light sabot'ed shell (kinda like the Tank shells or the Remington Accelerator shells) would increase the speed by allowing you to use a really small bullet ?? Confused

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
Scary tanks. Shocked

0.6 gallons a mile. or 300 Gallons in 8 hours. Shocked Not that feul friendly though.

I wonder if a really light sabot'ed shell (kinda like the Tank shells or the Remington Accelerator shells) would increase the speed by allowing you to use a really small bullet ?? Confused

Dimitri

I don't think that an accelerator would make any difference to the bullet disintergrating. If it was going to break up then it would. Now, I suppose a solid copper bullet in an accelerator...interesting thought. Speed for the sake of speed. Laughing

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Vince,

The sabot would be simply pressed copper and that will engage the rifling not the bullet itself so I think it might hold up better. Smile

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Handloader
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Bullet disintegration in flight is a product of rotational speed. The Swift, for example, has a 1 in 12 twist; at 5,000 fps, it would have a rotational speed of 300,000 rpm. 4,000 fps = 240,000 rpm, 3,000 fps = 180,000 rpm, etc. While velocity slows from the moment the bullet exits the muzzle, rotational speed remains fairly constant and degrades little.

The rotating speed of the bullet to achieve stability varies and (help from ballisticians appreciated here) probably relates to velocity factored by mass (?). Relative to 22 caliber bullets, 150,000 rpm seems to be the minimum optimum rpm. Speer advises that some of their 224 varmint bullets shouldn't exceed 3,400 fps. OTOH a Barnes TSX in 45gr couldn't possibly disintegrate.

Now, if Barnes offered a TSX 30gr in 224, 5,000 fps and beyond would be relatively easy out of the Swift or 22-250 AI. mc223 cites reloadersnest.com and the amazing speed achieved by the 22.250AI using VV powder. VV seems to have the ability to take velocity to higher levels within safe pressure constraints. In my case, I am using new brass for each new level of velocity and monitoring case head expansion very carefully.

Next session is Friday, 7am, testing H335 and the 35gr Berger.

report to follow
Back to top
View user's profile
george20042007
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 568
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
Scary tanks. Shocked

0.6 gallons a mile. or 300 Gallons in 8 hours. Shocked Not that feul friendly though.

I wonder if a really light sabot'ed shell (kinda like the Tank shells or the Remington Accelerator shells) would increase the speed by allowing you to use a really small bullet ?? Confused

Dimitri

I'll bet after the tank runs out of ammo, it's gas mileage gets better Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Handloader, in your quest for 5000 fps, I'd be interested in knowing the shooting details, i.e. are you allowing the barrel to cool between shots, barrel prep., how often do you clean the barrel, etc.

Other threads have addressed such issues, but, I'd like to know more about your shooting considerations as opposed to bullet type, powder, primer, and brass used.
Keep it coming...
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
mc223
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 02, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: S/E Kansas

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:52 am    Post subject: Re: 5,000 fps! well, not yet Reply with quote

[quote="Handloader"]Bullet disintegration in flight is a product of rotational speed. The Swift, for example, has a 1 in 12 twist; at 5,000 fps, it would have a rotational speed of 300,000 rpm. 4,000 fps = 240,000 rpm, 3,000 fps = 180,000 rpm, etc. While velocity slows from the moment the bullet exits the muzzle, rotational speed remains fairly constant and degrades little.

I just would like to add another way to think about rotation. At 100yds from a 1 in 12 twist velocity is not a factor. The bullet rotates on its axis 300 times. It would not matter if the Bullet velocity was a million Fps. The barrel sets the rotation. Rpm is for car engines and Dremel tools.
Bullets disassemble due to centrifugal force across the center axis usually due to poor balance and stress from the initial contact with the rifling and the resultant thinning of the jacket material.

_________________
Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier'n puttin' it back.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.