HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: ortjnfd0
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 1
Overall: 12496

People Online:
Members: 1
Visitors: 73
BOT: 4
Total: 78
Who Is Where:
 Members:
01: Hydeqs > Forums
 Visitors:
01: PointBlank Ballistics
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Home
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Home
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Photo Albums
11: Photo Albums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Home
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: News
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Photo Albums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: PointBlank Ballistics
29: PointBlank Ballistics
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: PointBlank Ballistics
33: Forums
34: Photo Albums
35: Home
36: Forums
37: Home
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Photo Albums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Photo Albums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Home
56: News
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Photo Albums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: News
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
  BOT:
01: Your Account
02: Your Account
03: Photo Albums
04: Your Account

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 304
 Pictures: 2343
  · Views: 312299
  · Votes: 1302
  · Comments: 85
 

Support our Advertisers

300 Win Mag Questions?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 7153
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

I started reloading 300 Win Mag for my hunting buddy. I have a range of monolithic bullets from 150 to 168 grains. SAAMI lists the max COAL at 3.340" The ogive of these bullets are at the neck case. What's up with this? I would have expected COALs to be much longer. These aren't even VLD bullets that would be even longer. Any insight? Why so short a neck? Any other tips for loading a 300 Win Mag? Thanks in advance.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


Last edited by slimjim on Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 4412
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

Do the bullet manufacturers list a different OAL? I'd try some loaded as long as the magazine allows (assuming the rifle has a magazine) and then make sure that the bullets aren't touching the rifling at that length.

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anyone else, and there ain't no one better than me!" Ma Kettle

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7047
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

hmm I was reading about this just yesterday..SAAMI lengths pressures etc etc are set as the norm so any factory will chamber/fire etc as for magazine length..well how long would the action have to be to cover all eventualities??? a happy medium had to be found and line drawn somewhere...now asuming (yeah yeah I know) that the .300 win mag is NOT going to be NORMALLY used for rapid fire aplications...shite with that amount of grunt one shot SHOULD be all thats needed. you could do what guys are doing over here for long range rifles.......find the sweet spot no matter how far out you have to seat bullet and load some rounds at that length for the first vital shot and have 2nd other mag length load for follow ups needed. the guys doing this sometimes have to remove bolt to extract 1st round if its not fired...not a big deal really if you think about it.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10331
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

Seat the bullet .010 to .020 off the leeds or rifling. Test in magazine.

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2077
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

and I can add: when you need a longer neck, change caliber into .308 Norma Magnum.

And for my .300 WM's (an FN and a Rem. Sendero) I still don't use the monolithics but I sure like the 180 grs in the FN and the 200-220 grs in the Sendero.
Barnes recommends the next in line lower weight, so I would suggest to start with the 168 grs.

By the way: does anyone know how to remove that funny part at the end of the barrel of such a Sendero? Is it threaded? Left or right? Anyone ever exchanged that part for something that gives more benefits than just the looks? How did you remove it? Heat it first?

Sorry SJ, but while writing my reply I just realized how much time these things are gathering dust in the safe. That FN in .300 WM was my first real hunting rifle and your thread gave me some nostalgic feelings... I still believe it's a very good caliber for people with only 1 rifle who don't own a .375 H&H...
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 7153
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

Elvis, an interesting idea to load a long COAL first and shorter in the magazine.

It will be a week or so before I get his rifle to measure mag length and distance to the lands.

Aloys, it the Barnes 168 TTSX that threw me. Its ogive is just inside the neck at 3.340". Now I know why Barnes loads 165s in their 300 WM and 168s in the .308. The .308 has more room for a longer bullet.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
tikkat3
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

The bottom of the Barnes bullet poster will tell you why there are diffferent ogives for 165 and 168'. quote
"The 30 cal 165 gr TSX incorporates a shorter tangent ogive into the nose profile. It’s designed for cartridges with short magazines such as the 300 WSM and 300 Win Mag.
+ #30844 - The 30 caliber 168 gr TSX has our Match Grade ogive which lengthens the nose profile. It is best suited for cartridges such as the .308 Winchester, .30-06 and 300 Weatherby."
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2077
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

Conclusion: you load the 168 TTSX for that first (long distance) shot and put the 165 grs TSX in the magazine, as Elvis suggested.
I would probably put the 165 grs in my rifle and keep the 168 grs in my pocket till I get the opportunity for a longdistance shot where I could use the extra match grade ogive. Long distance often also means more time, so I would have time to replace my normal hunting bullet by my super special round.
And I'm almost sure that you will have little difference in traject between the 2 bullets when the distance is shorter than fe. 300 yards.
And when I have to shoot long distance, I'm sure the top of my bullet is not already ruined by loading and unloading (as so often happens).
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 7153
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

tikkat3 wrote:
The bottom of the Barnes bullet poster "The 30 cal 165 gr TSX incorporates a shorter tangent ogive into the nose profile. It’s designed for cartridges with short magazines such as the 300 WSM and 300 Win Mag.
+ #30844 - The 30 caliber 168 gr TSX has our Match Grade ogive which lengthens the nose profile. It is best suited for cartridges such as the .308 Winchester, .30-06 and 300 Weatherby."

Thanks, tikka3. That explains it. The great .300 Win Mag can't shoot the longer low drag bullets unless you have a longer than standard magazine.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Divernhunter
Rookie Member
Rookie Member


Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

Just load the 150 grain TTSX as it will preform on game like a 195 grain lead core bullet. Load them fast as speed is what makes the non-lead bullets work(expand).
IF you feel the need for a heavier bullet use the 165 TTSX. The 150 will work on any game which the 300 mag is suitable for.
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 7153
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

Divernhunter, I agree. The 150 TTSX can do the job well. I'm actually using the 300 WM as a test platform for all the .308 monolithic bullets. The .308 just doesn't produce enough energy to test them properly. When I get done, I should be able to tell my hunting buddy which is the most accurate/best bullet in his gun.

BTW, its actually kinetic energy that causes a bullet to expand, e.g., the heavier monolithic bullets will expand at a lower velocity than the lighter ones. Another surprise the TSX out expands the TTSX in every caliber I've tested, .223 to .308. That is probably why Remington uses the TSX in their Hog Hammer.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7047
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

I beg to differ.. centrifugal force has a big part to play in expansion. try a rounded figures for ease.1 in 12" twist doing 3000 fps =3000 revs per second x 60seconds =180000rpm and that is a huge amount of force. some of the reason why varmit made rifles with fast twists have such a pink mist tendency.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 7153
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:10 am    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

www.huntingnut.com/ind...26&start=0

Elvis, here is the link to the thread showing the test data and analysis that energy is the primary determinant for bullet expansion. However, speaking specifically with regards to monolithic bullets, I have found indications that twist rate does affect the amount of expansion but it seems to be at the other extreme. A bullet may have enough twist to stay stable in flight but it needs more twist to stay stable going through tissue. If the bullet cannot stay stable long enough for it to shorten and increase its diameter (expand), it tumbles before the force of impact can fully expand the bullet. That is my theory and I am trying to collect enough test evidence to support it.

There is not that much difference in centrifical force between a 150 TTSX launched at 3300 fps and a 168 TTSX at 3100 fps.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7047
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:25 am    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

yip I see it..now do same thing using velocity NOT energy figures as velocity determines spin speed Scratch ..no you dont need to as every second magazine has picture of how a bullet will expand at different speeds Very Happy Very Happy
do you perchance have capacity to test bullet at same speed with two differing twist rates??? could be interesting to see that result.
getting a bullet to tumble has been experimented a lot in the past some fellas...well quite a few really are now using A Max bullets for long range work as they are so fragile they will distruct at low speed with good killing results,dont try them up close or shallow wound occurs Scratch
tis all horses for courses at end of the day.
you have done great tests and I take my hat off to you.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 7153
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions? Reply with quote

Elvis, I have a 6.8mm SPC with a 11.25 twist and my trusted 270 Win with a 1 in 10 twist. I started to notice a difference with the Barnes 110 TTSX at the same impact speeds, 6.8 at 100 yards and the 270 at 300 plus. This is a significant difference, twist plus the added rpm from the higher velocity. Unlike velocity, rotation decays slowly. I also have a 16 inch.223 with 1 in 9 and a 24 inch with 1 in 8 and have seen a difference between those two. It seems to be occurring in the mid to lower energy range. I am going to borrow a buddy's .223 with a 6.5 twist and compare. I just started testing the new 55gr GMX which seems to show a difference at all energy levels. This bullet expands rapidly and has 6 tentacles that reach out.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 4
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.