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free squibs here
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:59 pm    Post subject: free squibs here Reply with quote

Not really shopping for squibs, I've get enough to go around tho....I've been loading some rounds for my antique roller 8x58rDanish and have had a few squibs but don't know why. The powder doesn't fill the case so I'm using some toilet paper to fill. The squib bullets hit the throat and stop and so it seems they're only powered by the primer, the powder is still in the case (or in some instances is scattered in the barrel) and is yellowish in color. It's as if the powder almost got ignited, but not quite. On inspection of the primers they seem to be pretty deeply dented but not pierced. No signs of gas leak around primers. I have (out of 4rns of fire-formed 7.62 and 4rnds of 8x56) one 8x56 primer that is proud of the case and two primers in 7.62 cases that are pushed into the case almost as if I used a pistol primer (but I don't have any pistol primers anyway). The other cases that fired like they're supposed to, don't seem to have any primer problems.

Have a feeling it's the TP filler but can't understand why some and not others have failed. In the mean time I'm collecting squib lead to recast. Any ideas?
Oh and it's a dang fun gun to shoot too. I don't need to wear glasses for distance anymore and now I'm using iron sights, aaahhhh back to nature.


Suz

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

get some trail boss and load with that..you will drop velocity/recoil etc and KNOW they will go off like they should.
maybe the powder is getting past TP and not getting flame from primer as TP is blocking it??

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Which powder?

I think Elvis has the best idea, using Trail Boss. I do think I'd ask Hodgdon before trying this though, just to be safe.

www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Tr...%20R&P.pdf

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:18 am    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Suz, many years ago I had a similar problem and I blamed it to oil/fat in the case or primer. Some of them even did go "bang", but as this: first you heard "thick" when you pulled the trigger and then after a few seconds it was folowed by a "bang". I remember it was a .300 WM and it was no fun for the shoulder, the rest of the body and the confidence...
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MacD
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:24 am    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

I suggest you prime some cases and fire them off without powder or pill. This will tell you ifit is a primer issue.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:51 am    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Good idea Mac.

I'm with Elvis on the Trail Boss Suz. To find your start load with Trail Boss, fill a case with the powder (Trail Boss of course) to the bottom of the neck, weigh this powder then reduce the quantity to 70%...this is your start load. Increase your load in small increments (.1 of a grain can affect accuracy) until you find your accurate load. DO NOT use a compressed load, but you will find your load well before that point anyway. In my 30.30 I found between 10.5gr and 10.8gr was the sweet spot.

Other powders to consider is Red Dot or Promo (the data is interchangeable)...both lend themselves to reduced loads.

Ensure you do plenty of research before deciding which powder to use and keep things safe. The data us out there...just a matter of finding it in the quagmire of info.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

The powder I'm using is H-4831 @ 41.6grns. I've done the reduced loads stuff, and now I'm trying some regular powder and moderate loads. I'm using the same technique loading them as I did the reduced loads, but now I'm getting some squibs. Sure I'd try out some Trail Boss if I could find some. All I can find is black powder and 50BMG powder, only because they're unpopular. Still think it's the TP, will try out some cotton balls, probably have to buy them by the billions....I could stuff my bra..
Thanks for the PDF Pumpkin, I think I have that somewhere but I'm puttin it on my desktop this time so I can find it. (I share the computer with a dunderhead tho)

Suz

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

H-4831 is similar/same as AR2213
good stuff in .270 and if you read the gaff on it was originally cannon powder too.
buy some more primers..fresh ones and better still some magnum ones to give you hotter/fiercer flame . why do you still need TP?? in a load like that???
and just a thought..its not a rimmed case?correct???
you could try partial length resize eg dont give resizing die the extra turn when setting it up..that MAY keep shoulder of case SLIGHTLY longer meaning firing pin will hit primer and there is no way case can move forward.
another thought..are primers all being struck well??? are the dents good and deep???
we had a bakail that would missfire the pin would drop but as action lever wasnt completely closed the pin never got to hit primer... quick trip to gunsmith sorted that out.

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English Mike
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

You're supposed to put the TP in AFTER the powder.....

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Well Elvis I didn't think I'd need to stuff anything on top of the powder, just did it to make sure. Don't think I've tried without ToiPap. I just bought some cotton balls but maybe I'll do without and see what happens. I wouldn't think the powder would be sensitive to a little space, but the more you read, the more you're left guessing. Know what I mean?

Yes they are rimmed cases and I only neck size them after they were fire-formed to get good tension on the bullet.

Primers are deeply indented when fired, matter of fact I'm trying to find out if the firing pin is protruding too much or not. I've put the question to a Swede rifle forum but they haven't given me any replys.

Yeah I like that powder and I've gotten good results with the ammo that does go bang. It's a strong enough load that it's giving me some really nice groups. Thanks Elvis!


Suz

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

must be dodgy primers then...magnum ones are recommended for that powder in .270 in about half of the manuals Confused

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Corn meal or cream of wheat? Never used it myself and only have read about using this as a filler. Add enough to fill the case up to the neck and compress it slightly with the bullet.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Suz,
Unless that is the only suitable powder you have you might try a faster burning powder. 35 grains of H4895 should be a good minimum reduced load and you don't need any wad. Using a magnum primer may help but it could also cause a detonation because it will push the bullet forward with more force. If your pressures are low enough you might try a pistol primer. I just read an article how the lower blast of the pistol primer actually did a better job of igniting powder charges - it was in a small case (22 Hornet) but the rifle primers were moving the bullet forward causing ignition problems. I don't know if I would hang on to the rifle the first few rounds but it seems a better bet than using a magnum primer which will push the bullet out faster and throw that powder around even more.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Thanks guys I'll ponder a few things before I do any loading again. I do have other powders I can use and I don't really want to mess with fillers again. I'll just see what I can do with it. Don't know how soon I can get back to it, I'll let you know what happens, when I do.


Suz

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Paul..Ive been told DO NOT use pistol primers in a rifle load as they arent built to withstand the higher pressures eg you may get popped primers or blow back. as I said if you look in different loading manuals about half recommend using magnum primers with that powder

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